Girls games

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really would like to be informed where those great games can be or desirable enough for someone like me to work is wanting to work them .... It is mainly girls that get scores like 78 to 10 where I am from ... we are trying to have this reasonable conversation where we all love both sides of the game, but many simply don't. And it is not just the officials, it is the fans.

While this post will not convince JRutledge and others that girls games are desirable, or even tolerable, to work, I would still like to make some points.

Probably due to the University of Connecticut Women Huskies being "worshiped" throughout the state, Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball (and I fully realize that other parts of the country may not be the same). Little girls start playing in town sponsored recreation leagues while in elementary school. Almost all towns will also sponsor travel teams for the more advanced girls. Summer camps sponsored by high schools, colleges, or private entities are usually filled to capacity (I've coached and officiated at such). Almost all school systems have middle school teams. Most high schools have freshmen, junior varsity, and varsity programs (exceptions for some of our smaller schools).

We normally don't see the lopsided scores that JRutledge has described due to the way our local area leagues and conferences are set up, one league has mostly small rural schools, and another has mostly large suburban and large urban schools.

While there isn't a major difference in fan attendance for mid-week games, boys crowds are slightly larger on Friday nights, mostly due to long lived rivalry traditions.

But the most important thing is fairness. Shouldn't girls get the same high quality officials as boys? Right now, they don't in Connecticut.

On the the hand, do we want officials in girls games that don't want to be there?

"Ay, there's the rub.” (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While this post will not convince JRutledge and others that girls games are desirable, or even tolerable, to work, I would still like to make some points.

Probably due to the University of Connecticut Women Huskies being "worshiped" throughout the state, Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball (and I fully realize that other parts of the country may not be the same). Little girls start playing in town sponsored recreation leagues while in elementary school. Almost all towns will also sponsor travel teams for the more advanced girls. Summer camps sponsored by high schools, colleges, or private entities are usually filled to capacity (I've coached and officiated at such). Almost all school systems have middle school teams. Most high schools have freshmen, junior varsity, and varsity programs (exceptions for some of our smaller rural schools).

We normally don't see the lopsided scores that JRutledge has described due to the way our local area leagues and conferences are set up, one league has mostly small rural schools, and another has mostly large suburban and large urban schools.

While there isn't a major difference in fan attendance for mid-week games, boys crowds are slightly larger on Friday nights, mostly due to long lived rivalry traditions.

But the most important thing is fairness. Shouldn't girls get the same high quality officials as boys? Right now, they don't in Connecticut.

On the the hand, do we want officials in girls games that don't want to be there?

"Ay, there's the rub.” (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1)

Why doesn't UConn have a single Connecticut player on their Women's team? So if it is taking off unlike where you think I am, I would be there are many more D1 players in girl's basketball just from Illinois alone. That being said this was not about what each state might do. When there are reports of massive blowouts that result in a coach or school in some kind of suspension, those are often if not always girl's games. Now I think girls are often not taught fundamentals like dribbling which makes the disparity as big sometimes.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If there is that good of girls basketball in the country, please tell me where that is. And honestly, that is not the point of why some never want to work girls basketball. When I work small college games, often there is a girls game before our game and they look undesirable most of the time. So if there is an abundance of girls games that people are working 30 and 40 a year consistently, I really would like to be informed where those great games can be or desirable enough for someone like me to work is wanting to work them. I say that because we have many D1 players in this area and they often do not play each other or they the majority of teams cannot compete with teams with those kinds of players on any level. It is mainly girls that get scores like 78 to 10 where I am from. A bad boys game might be 78 to 50, but it is not common to get that kind of score in most cases. And we have a running clock rule if you are 30 points in the 4th quarter which in my experience rarely happens. Even the game I did yesterday afternoon, the teams were widely different in talent and we never got to at 30-point differential in the game.
...

Peace

Last night was an example of something that happens frequently in the region I'm in.

I went to observe GV/BV doubleheader last night between inner-city, archrival schools. The GV final score was 103-9, and the winning team had lost its previous game by 30 points. BV was 65-63 in OT.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The GV final score was 103-9 ...

Wow! Any chance the winners were running up the score. We had such a game last year, also with girls, made national news, coach was suspended for a game.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/n...all-coach.html

Connecticut had many problems with running up the scores in football games about fifteen years ago. The CIAC responded with guidelines and penalties for such football situations.

One comment on the article, while it's true that Connecticut doesn't have any "mercy rule" for basketball, the article fails to mention that the NFHS does allow periods to be shortened with agreement of both coaches and the referee.

Here in Connecticut private Catholic high schools, such as the high school in the article, are grouped with public high schools in leagues, conferences, and the state tournament. They are quite often accused of "recruiting athletes" (technically not allowed) because they are allowed to enroll students from across town boundaries.

With the recent rise of "specialty" magnet high schools, also allowed to enroll students from across town boundaries, there have been a few accusations of "athlete recruitment" with magnet high schools, but just a few, not very widespread.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Last night was an example of something that happens frequently in the region I'm in.

I went to observe GV/BV doubleheader last night between inner-city, archrival schools. The GV final score was 103-9, and the winning team had lost its previous game by 30 points. BV was 65-63 in OT.

The score you first posted is not typical of my area, but the 30-point deficiet is often very common or something like it for sure.

To be fair, there was a score in a boys game a few weeks ago that was something like 101-24 (I will have to look it up). That was very unsual and it was noted that is not a score you see all the time.

I did in my very first post-season back in the 2000s have a game where the score was 101-41. I have never had a outcome that large in any post season game and almost never had one in any other boys varsity game since. Oh that was in 2004 and my very first Regional (everyone plays in the Regional in IHSA Basketball).

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You can tell places where there is a proclivity for girls to eschew picking up a basketball until their freshman year in high school. Why that's a phenomenon in some places and not in others, I'm not sure. When it comes to sports participation, it seems like there are geographic feminine sub-cultures in this country.

Same thing here in Connecticut for field hockey. Few, if any, town programs or interscholastic middle school programs.

Outside of Connecticut's southwest "Gold Coast", it used to be the same for lacrosse, for both boys and girls. But more and more towns throughout Connecticut now have town sponsored lacrosse programs.

Similar to the way soccer, both boys and girls, suddenly became "hot" in Connecticut about forty-five years ago. Before that it was considered a "fringe" sport.

I predict that the next "hot" sport in Connecticut will be rugby, both for boys and girls. Some high schools now have interscholastic "club" teams, with a few student athletes receiving partial college scholarships.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Same thing here in Connecticut for field hockey. Few, if any, town programs or interscholastic middle school programs.

Outside of Connecticut's southwest "Gold Coast", it used to be the same for lacrosse, for both boys and girls. But more and more towns throughout Connecticut now have town sponsored lacrosse programs.

Similar to the way soccer, both boys and girls, suddenly became "hot" in Connecticut about forty-five years ago. Before that it was considered a "fringe" sport.

I predict that the next "hot" sport in Connecticut will be rugby, both for boys and girls. Some high schools now have interscholastic "club" teams, with a few student athletes receiving partial college scholarships.

Once people figure out you can get scholarships in those off sports they explode. Golf and fishing have taken off here. Golf especially.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Our group leaders recently noted that some experienced / veteran refs are preferring to work only boy's games instead of girl's games--even at the varsity and state playoffs levels. This poses a problem bcuz: 1) it reduces the pool of available refs who are officiating them, 2) it diminishes the mentoring capacity in that veteran refs can't be paired with novice refs if the vet doesn't do girl's, 3) it possibly decreases the quality of girl's games. However, the game fee of $90 is the same for both types of games. I haven't had the chance to ask them why they do not want to work their games, but I will work either type of contest. What, if any, would be a reasonable explanation for not doing girl's?

I never turned down a game based on sex. Girls games in general were less enjoyable due to the skill disparity between teams. Blowouts are quite common. In my very rural area, scheduling is tough and I am not aware of officials focusing on boys or girls. I could see the advantage of specializing if working college games. I know regional college officials typically work only boys or girls.

If it does become a problem here in the future, I would support my local school district in paying more for girl's games officials.