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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicGuy View Post

Obviously I'm not suggesting people be forced to work girls games if they are opposed. Just pointing out that in a lot of cases, the reasons for not wanting to work girls games is sexist and insulting. This isn't always the case, but it's a prevalent enough to discuss.
I agree! Demanding to work boys/MENS games simply because you're a woman is sexist. But, what is insulting is, assignors still giving them games because they're afraid of being called a sexist

Question! What % of WNBA officials do you think would quit if they were given the opportunity to work in the NBA? Sexist?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 10:48am
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Connecticut Girls Basketball ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I really would like to be informed where those great games can be or desirable enough for someone like me to work is wanting to work them .... It is mainly girls that get scores like 78 to 10 where I am from ... we are trying to have this reasonable conversation where we all love both sides of the game, but many simply don't. And it is not just the officials, it is the fans.
While this post will not convince JRutledge and others that girls games are desirable, or even tolerable, to work, I would still like to make some points.

Probably due to the University of Connecticut Women Huskies being "worshiped" throughout the state, Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball (and I fully realize that other parts of the country may not be the same). Little girls start playing in town sponsored recreation leagues while in elementary school. Almost all towns will also sponsor travel teams for the more advanced girls. Summer camps sponsored by high schools, colleges, or private entities are usually filled to capacity (I've coached and officiated at such). Almost all school systems have middle school teams. Most high schools have freshmen, junior varsity, and varsity programs (exceptions for some of our smaller schools).

We normally don't see the lopsided scores that JRutledge has described due to the way our local area leagues and conferences are set up, one league has mostly small rural schools, and another has mostly large suburban and large urban schools.

While there isn't a major difference in fan attendance for mid-week games, boys crowds are slightly larger on Friday nights, mostly due to long lived rivalry traditions.

But the most important thing is fairness. Shouldn't girls get the same high quality officials as boys? Right now, they don't in Connecticut.

On the the hand, do we want officials in girls games that don't want to be there?

"Ay, there's the rub.” (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1)
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 25, 2022 at 11:44am.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 11:02am
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Pick Up A Stick ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
You can tell places where there is a proclivity for girls to eschew picking up a basketball until their freshman year in high school. Why that's a phenomenon in some places and not in others, I'm not sure. When it comes to sports participation, it seems like there are geographic feminine sub-cultures in this country.
Same thing here in Connecticut for field hockey. Few, if any, town programs or interscholastic middle school programs.

Outside of Connecticut's southwest "Gold Coast", it used to be the same for lacrosse, for both boys and girls. But more and more towns throughout Connecticut now have town sponsored lacrosse programs.

Similar to the way soccer, both boys and girls, suddenly became "hot" in Connecticut about forty-five years ago. Before that it was considered a "fringe" sport.

I predict that the next "hot" sport in Connecticut will be rugby, both for boys and girls. Some high schools now have interscholastic "club" teams, with a few student athletes receiving partial college scholarships.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Nov 24, 2022 at 11:33am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Same thing here in Connecticut for field hockey. Few, if any, town programs or interscholastic middle school programs.

Outside of Connecticut's southwest "Gold Coast", it used to be the same for lacrosse, for both boys and girls. But more and more towns throughout Connecticut now have town sponsored lacrosse programs.

Similar to the way soccer, both boys and girls, suddenly became "hot" in Connecticut about forty-five years ago. Before that it was considered a "fringe" sport.

I predict that the next "hot" sport in Connecticut will be rugby, both for boys and girls. Some high schools now have interscholastic "club" teams, with a few student athletes receiving partial college scholarships.
Once people figure out you can get scholarships in those off sports they explode. Golf and fishing have taken off here. Golf especially.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 12:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
While this post will not convince JRutledge and others that girls games are desirable, or even tolerable, to work, I would still like to make some points.

Probably due to the University of Connecticut Women Huskies being "worshiped" throughout the state, Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball (and I fully realize that other parts of the country may not be the same). Little girls start playing in town sponsored recreation leagues while in elementary school. Almost all towns will also sponsor travel teams for the more advanced girls. Summer camps sponsored by high schools, colleges, or private entities are usually filled to capacity (I've coached and officiated at such). Almost all school systems have middle school teams. Most high schools have freshmen, junior varsity, and varsity programs (exceptions for some of our smaller rural schools).

We normally don't see the lopsided scores that JRutledge has described due to the way our local area leagues and conferences are set up, one league has mostly small rural schools, and another has mostly large suburban and large urban schools.

While there isn't a major difference in fan attendance for mid-week games, boys crowds are slightly larger on Friday nights, mostly due to long lived rivalry traditions.

But the most important thing is fairness. Shouldn't girls get the same high quality officials as boys? Right now, they don't in Connecticut.

On the the hand, do we want officials in girls games that don't want to be there?

"Ay, there's the rub.” (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1)
Why doesn't UConn have a single Connecticut player on their Women's team? So if it is taking off unlike where you think I am, I would be there are many more D1 players in girl's basketball just from Illinois alone. That being said this was not about what each state might do. When there are reports of massive blowouts that result in a coach or school in some kind of suspension, those are often if not always girl's games. Now I think girls are often not taught fundamentals like dribbling which makes the disparity as big sometimes.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 04:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
I agree! Demanding to work boys/MENS games simply because you're a woman is sexist. But, what is insulting is, assignors still giving them games because they're afraid of being called a sexist



Question! What % of WNBA officials do you think would quit if they were given the opportunity to work in the NBA? Sexist?
WNBA refs are part of the same program as NBA refs. It would be a promotion to go from the WNBA to the NBA. The veteran WNBA refs are past the point where they're being considered for the NBA. Younger WNBA refs are hoping to get to the NBA.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 07:14pm
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Per Capita ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Why doesn't UConn have a single Connecticut player on their Women's team?
Because Connecticut only has three million residents. Only half are women. Many are too old, or too young, to play high school or college basketball.

UCONN only recruits the best of the best, not just the best of Connecticut. This year UCONN has players on their roster from Portugal, France, Hungary, Canada, and Croatia.

There are six other Division I women's basketball programs in Connecticut, most with Connecticut natives on their rosters, as well as Connecticut natives on many other Division I, Division II, and Division III women's basketball programs all over the United States.

Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball talent. It's not the only "hot bed" of girls basketball talent in the United States, but it is a "hot bed" of girls basketball talent.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 25, 2022 at 12:53pm.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 08:44pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Because Connecticut only has three million residents. Only half are women. Many are too old, or too young, to play high school or college basketball.

UCONN only recruits the best of the best, not just the best of Connecticut. This year UCONN has players on their roster from Portugal, France, Hungary, Canada, and Croatia.

There are six other Division I women's basketball programs in Connecticut, most with Connecticut natives on their rosters, as well as Connecticut natives on many other Division I, Division II, and Division III women's basketball programs all over the United States.

Connecticut is a "hot bed" of girls basketball talent. It's not only "hot bed" of girls basketball talent in the United States, but it is a "hot bed" of girls basketball talent.
But the flagship university cannot get one or two from the state? Usually that is bad for a state run program, but UConn Women's has been the pure class of the NCAA Women's side.

There are more than 3 million in the Chicagoland area and still a lot of mismatches in girl's basketball which was my only point. I doubt it is any different in any state as national stories have shown.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 25, 2022, 11:18am
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Blowouts ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... still a lot of mismatches in girl's basketball which was my only point. I doubt it is any different in any state as national stories have shown.
The reason why we have few local blowouts is due to the way our conferences and leagues have evolved based on “sports culture” and enrollment size. Geography and proximity of schools is only the third consideration.

We have five leagues in our local area. The largest, by far, includes both large urban schools and large suburban schools. We have a conference that consists of very small, very rural schools (I often joke about John Deere tractors in the parking lots). Another league consists of very small suburban schools. We have two leagues, a technical school league and a magnet school league, that both consist of very small mostly urban schools. Other parts of Connecticut have similar league and conference setups.

Many outside of Connecticut think of the state as being very small in area (a very correct assumption), with no extremely large cities (also a very correct assumption, no Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, etc.), but having a very concentrated population in a small area (somewhat incorrect). Lots of people live in the central part of the state and along the shoreline, but the northwest and northeast corners of the state are mostly rural and forested.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 25, 2022 at 02:33pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 25, 2022, 11:44am
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Long Bus Rides Worth It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Our few local blowouts are due to the way our conferences and leagues have evolved based on “sports culture” and enrollment size. Geography and proximity of schools is only the third consideration ... a technical school league ... magnet school league ... very small mostly urban schools.
The technical school league completely avoids the concept of geography and proximity of schools. It's state-wide league. Some schools in the league are over 110 miles apart.

Before they formed their own league, these very small technical schools, not very sports oriented, but with goals of providing Connecticut with future electricians, plumbers, carpenters, machine operators, welders, mechanics, chefs, practical nurses, cosmetologists, etc., were always getting blown out by other schools in their previously "geography and proximity" based leagues.

Same thing with magnet schools. When these small academically oriented magnet schools (some without gyms or athletic fields) started "popping up" about twenty years go, they first joined existing "geography and proximity" based leagues. That didn't go so well. Now they have their own league, not many schools in the league, but it works.

Before the magnet schools formed their own league, I remember officiating a girls varsity game between a very small urban magnet school for college bound students (played their home games in a nearby middle school) against a large urban public high school. The score got so lopsided that the losing coach asked if we could switch to a running clock in the second half (no mercy rules in Connecticut basketball). I replied that we couldn't but that we could shorten the last two periods with the agreement of both coaches and the referee (NFHS), so we did.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 25, 2022 at 02:34pm.
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