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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 12:25am
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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/04/sp...ts/04ROUT.html

I have enclosed some excepts for those who have not signed up for the times (free, and excellent reading)



Michigan and Missouri officials petitioned the National Federation of State High School Associations, the powerful rule-making body for 16 boys' and girls' sports at more than 17,000 high schools, to make the running game clock permanent in the states that desired to do so. The clock would no longer stop once a team went ahead by 40 points.

The federation's rules committee approved the proposal, but the board of directors rejected it. Mary Struckhoff, assistant director of the federation, said the board wanted to consider applying the rule nationally, and not solely on a state-by-state basis, as Michigan and Missouri had desired. The board will discuss the proposal again at its annual meeting in Indianapolis next month.

"I am very concerned about these blowout games, because I think they are increasing in number and getting worse," said John Johnson, communications director for the Michigan High School Athletic Association. "The purpose of school sports is to educate kids. That's what makes us different from colleges and the pros. There is nothing to be learned in these blowout games. No one should be embarrassed in high school."

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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 04:28am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Lightbulb Not going to help much.

As much as it sounds appealing, I hope they never change this rule. Basketball is not football. You are not jeapordizing a serious injury by playing these kids for a few more minutes. If they are that bad, maybe they need to practice more and the teams with the stronger team needs to back off with the defensive pressure and shooting up three pointers. You can still play without embarrassing a team and using a running clock. I do not think running the clock is going to help this lesson.

But then again that is my opinion.

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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 08:50am
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Even though there is no rule to support it, I have seen the running clock philosophy imposed in varying degrees in games of all levels, many of which had a spread of a lot less than 40 points.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 09:30am
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Re: Not going to help much.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
As much as it sounds appealing, I hope they never change this rule. Basketball is not football. You are not jeapordizing a serious injury by playing these kids for a few more minutes.


I never saw anything to indicate they were worried about injuries. It was undue embarrassment they were concerned about.


If they are that bad, maybe they need to practice more and the teams with the stronger team needs to back off with the defensive pressure and shooting up three pointers.


You mean leave it in the hands of the coaches and that will solve it? The reason they are thinking about doing it is that they have left it in the coaches hands and it isn't working.


You can still play without embarrassing a team and using a running clock. I do not think running the clock is going to help this lesson.


It won't prevent blowouts, but it will allow the teams (and more importantly, the officials) a way to get out of the debacle a few minutes earlier. :-)

Z
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 09:52am
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I think that I would rather do this game:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...oring_game_ap/
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
I think that I would rather do this game:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...oring_game_ap/
Ok, no shot clock but what about 5 second counts, 2 defender traps, and the old hitting the hand (hard) while it is on the ball. I have to fault the other coach on this.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 10:19am
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I use to do the clock a few years ago for a school that had a very bad basketball program. They were a small school playing one division too high and would regularly get blown out. During home games, if they were behind, the coach would give me a signal, he would look at me and tug his ear. When he did this, I would try to keep the clock running as much as possible. Stop it late, start it early, keep it running at times. Never had an opposing coach or an official ever say anything about it.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 10:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
I use to do the clock a few years ago for a school that had a very bad basketball program. They were a small school playing one division too high and would regularly get blown out. During home games, if they were behind, the coach would give me a signal, he would look at me and tug his ear. When he did this, I would try to keep the clock running as much as possible. Stop it late, start it early, keep it running at times. Never had an opposing coach or an official ever say anything about it.
Some things are better left unsaid...
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 02:17pm
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Re: Re: Not going to help much.

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman

I never saw anything to indicate they were worried about injuries. It was undue embarrassment they were concerned about.
I did not say they were. But in Football where the 40 point running clock rule is active, it is because it is a different kind of sport with injury factors. Basketball does not have the same concern.


Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman

You mean leave it in the hands of the coaches and that will solve it? The reason they are thinking about doing it is that they have left it in the coaches hands and it isn't working.

Why not, they do already.


Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman

It won't prevent blowouts, but it will allow the teams (and more importantly, the officials) a way to get out of the debacle a few minutes earlier. :-)

Z
Well it does not have to be a debacle just because of the score. And considering that this almost never happens on one side of the ball, maybe the girls coaches need to learn something from the Boy's coaches. They tend to call off the dogs and try their best to play the backups and get through the game. If we are going to have this rule, have it for the girl's side only. But we know that will never happen.

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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 05:25pm
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Re: Re: Re: Not going to help much.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Well it does not have to be a debacle just because of the score.


You've seen quality games where the game ended w/ more than a 40 point differential?


And considering that this almost never happens on one side of the ball, maybe the girls coaches need to learn something from the Boy's coaches.


I think I've had as many blowout games in boys as girls.


They tend to call off the dogs and try their best to play the backups and get through the game.


Actually, I think boy's teams have more of a killer instinct and tend to pour it on.


If we are going to have this rule, have it for the girl's side only. But we know that will never happen.


Gee, I don't know why. It's such a well-thought-out idea.

Z
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 05:30pm
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In Michigan, we had the mercy rule on an experimental basis in boys and girls for 3 years before the NFHS made Michigan drop it. Briefly, when a team had a 40 point lead in the second half, the clock ran (except on TOs and FTs in the last 2 minutes)unless the lead was reduced to 30 or less.

Everyone (players, coaches and officials) loved this rule. No one has fun in a 40 point game, and no one learns anything. The winning players have no challenge. The losing players give up and just go through the motions. Sometimes, frustration sets in and you might have the losers take a cheap shot at the winners. With the running clock, the travesty ends sooner and everyone goes home happier than if they had to endure another 10 or 15 minutes of a lopsided game.

As an official, with a running clock you can call a straight game and not worry about prolonging the agony by blowing the whistle. I've seen many officials in blowouts stop blowing their whistles, which just leads to rough play and injuries.
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Old Tue Mar 04, 2003, 08:02pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not going to help much.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman



You've seen quality games where the game ended w/ more than a 40 point differential?


The quality of the game has nothing to do with the score differential. I have had 10 point games that were not worth a damn. I would not consider that as a factor.



I think I've had as many blowout games in boys as girls.


Good. I do not recall that I asked you for your opinion.



Actually, I think boy's teams have more of a killer instinct and tend to pour it on.


Again, I do not think I asked for what you thought about it. You do have the right to disagree, but I was not giving my personal thoughts and comparing to what was going on with you. We do live in different states, maybe the quality of basketball is different, ya think?


If we are going to have this rule, have it for the girl's side only. But we know that will never happen.



Gee, I don't know why. It's such a well-thought-out idea.


Well I have not seen a better argument given institute such a rule. In Baseball they have a rule to not spend all day trying to end a game that is not timed and save arms of the pitchers on a team. In Football the issue is injuries with a collision sport, where size and strength are very much apart of the actual contest. And in football the game clock is not constantly moving with incomplete passes, change of possession and penalties and out of bounds plays which just prolong the flow and movement of the time of the game. Basketball is a timed game which does not last very long, which the score is not going to cut down on embarrassment or pain of losing by a huge margin. Losing by 20 points can and is rather embarrassing in my opinion. Unless the rules are going to cut down on 3 point shooting, shooting FTs for the winning team or anything that actually stops the margin from widening, I think that a "mercy rule" at the NF is rather silly.

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