thread color on an undershirt

[Mike Goodwin]

NFHS 3-5-6: "Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey and shall be hemmed and not have frayed or ragged edges. If the undershirt has sleeves, they shall be the same length. Only one visible logo is permitted. See Rule 3-6 for logo requirements." [emphasis added]

It appears manufacturers are now making undershirts using thread that differs from the color of the fabric, which naturally, is sparking debate among officials as to the legality of the undershirt. One state (I forget which) considers all three undershirts in the photo to be legal if worn under a black jersey.

Absent any specific rules book or case book guidance regarding thread color, I would consider all three pictured below as simply black.

What say you?



Mike

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I’d allow it unless the person giving me games told me specifically to enforce it.

I can't tell you how much I love that answer!

[Raymond]

If those aren't legal, I would vote for them to be legal.

And definitely what AremRed said.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[bob jenkins]

Illegal in NCAA-W

From this year's Supplemental Apparel guide (but this info is consistent with prior years); emphasis added:

Undershirts
• Considered part of the game jersey and must be a color similar to the game jersey as defined by
the neutral zone
• Neckline and sleeves may not be altered.
• Sleeves must be the same length on an individual player.
• If the sleeves extend below the elbow, the shirt must be made of compression material or be
tight-fitting on the arms.
• No logos of any type (excluding one manufacturer’s logo that fits within a four-sided geometrical
shape with an area no larger than 2¼ square inches), decorations, trim, commemorative patches,
lettering, or numbering are permitted on the undershirt.
• Stitching which is not the same color as the undershirt is not permitted.

[JRutledge]

We already have shirts where the stitching does not match the color of the rest of the fabric. We were told at least in high school not to make this an issue. I think this should not be an issue.

Peace

[SC Official]

Not an issue in any of the games I receive from my supervisors unless they tell me otherwise.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We were told at least in high school not to make this an issue.

Originally Posted by SC Official

Not an issue in any of the games I receive from my supervisors unless they tell me otherwise.

Allowing it that night in my interscholastic game, however, I'm telling the offending coach that it may be a problem down the line, especially in the state tournament where the state often kicks fashion issues up a notch and schools are often assigned tournament officials from outside their local area. I'm also contacting my local assigner and my local interpreter describing the situation.

[Camron Rust]

Here is what I tell Oregon officials.

If the difference is enough to see at 15-20 feet, it is not legal. If you have to be right on it to see it, ignore it.

The shirts pictured above would not pass that test.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Here is what I tell Oregon officials.

If the difference is enough to see at 15-20 feet, it is not legal. If you have to be right on it to see it, ignore it.

The shirts pictured above would not pass that test.

So when you see the UA compression shirts where you clearly have white or even gray stitching (on white or black shirts), you are not allowing a player to wear those in Oregon?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If the difference is enough to see at 15-20 feet, it is not legal. If you have to be right on it to see it, ignore it.

I fully understand the "Don't go looking for trouble" policy, but ...

Several years ago we had a visiting team with purple jerseys. The entire team wore warm-up jackets during the pregame layup lines, thus covering up any fashion issues.

During the pregame ceremony, as the starters were being introduced, one starter (and only one starter) came out with a very, very short sleeved (almost sleeveless) black undershirt under his purple jersey, with only about an inch-plus of black showing. We discussed and decided that it wasn't very obvious under the purple jersey, and we decided to let it go.

Sure enough, in the second period a visitor substitute reports with a long sleeved (all the way down to his wrists) black undershirt under his purple jersey. It couldn't be more obvious that the long sleeved black undershirt was illegal under the purple jersey.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So when you see the UA compression shirts where you clearly have white or even gray stitching (on white or black shirts), you are not allowing a player to wear those in Oregon?

Peace

If it is visible from 20', no. That is no different than a stripe. It isn't a solid color. They make them with same color stitching.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If it is visible from 20', no. That is no different than a stripe. It isn't a solid color. They make them with same color stitching.

We were told here, not to nitpick stitching. So it is allowed as long as the main color of the shirt is the same color. It seems like a regular design. Now not saying these do not have an issue by rule, but I feel some common sense should be used. Now if the rule was the clarify that stitching should not be a different color, I get that. But we know the kids are wearing what is also available. Just like we would not nitpick a black shirt and black undershirt but you might have some different shades of black being worn by different players or better yet when other colors like grey or gold are worn and you almost never find the same shade of undershirt compared to the jersey or teammates.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... some common sense should be used ... we would not nitpick a black shirt and black undershirt but you might have some different shades of black being worn by different players or better yet when other colors like grey or gold are worn and you almost never find the same shade of undershirt compared to the jersey or teammates.

No need to use common sense here. It's already specifically and clearly covered by the rule.

The most nit-picking, overly officious, "rules expert" official, with almost no common sense, can interpret this correctly just based on the literal rule language.

3-5-6: Undershirts must be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey ...

"Similar" is not the same as "same".

For example, a yellow undershirt, by rule, is similar enough to a gold jersey to be legal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No need to use common sense here. It's already specifically and clearly covered by the rule.

The most nit-picking, overly officious, "rules expert" official, with almost no common sense, can interpret this correctly just based on the literal rule language.

3-5-6: Undershirts must be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey ...

"Similar" is not the same as "same".

For example, a yellow undershirt, by rule, is similar enough to a gold jersey to be legal.

I am aware of the rule, but there are shirts that are multiple shades of color and do not match each other in any way. I do not consider light blue the same as dark blue, but we do not make issues with those kinds of colors worn. So how technical are we going to be? This is about the stitching, not just the shades which was stated could not be worn according to the state.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... but there are shirts that are multiple shades of color and do not match each other in any way. I do not consider light blue the same as dark blue ...

Agree. For example, lots and lots of shades of blue (UCONN wears American Flag Blue), some would be "similar" and thus legal, others might not be so "similar" and thus illegal.

Some common sense subjectivity would be necessary in situations like this, subjectivity that might vary from one official to the another, hoping that the state or local association would come up with some well publicized guidelines.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is about the stitching ...

One official's "stitching" is another official's "stripes" (they look like stripes to me) and, again, hoping that the state or local association would come up with some well publicized guidelines.

We haven't seen these undershirts in Connecticut yet, but I'm sure that we eventually will.