Delay Throwin Or Free Throw ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We are getting close.

Close to an answer?

Give it your best shot.

Please.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Close to an answer?

Give it your best shot.

Please.

I am going to be honest with you. I do not really know what you are asking. You are referencing all this stuff and not sure what the confusion is. This is kind of the issue many have with you sometimes. You often seem to not have a direct point or a reason why you are asking the specific question.

Why don't you just ask a question and let people answer what they know or can reference instead of posting information and then posting more information and getting the actual question lost in the material? Are you confused of something in the rule or are you asking to validate your position? Your post often are more confusing than some of the questions they ask on rules tests.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Close to an answer?

Give it your best shot.

Please.

We are getting close to the process Bob laid out in regard to how certain threads go.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am going to be honest with you. I do not really know what you are asking. You are referencing all this stuff and not sure what the confusion is. This is kind of the issue many have with you sometimes. You often seem to not have a direct point or a reason why you are asking the specific question.

Why don't you just ask a question and let people answer what they know or can reference instead of posting information and then posting more information and getting the actual question lost in the material? Are you confused of something in the rule or are you asking to validate your position? Your post often are more confusing than some of the questions they ask on rules tests.

Peace

Pretty much my outlook on this thread as well. Not sure what's being asked. Seemed like Billy answered his own question somewhere in the word buffet.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

We are getting close to the process Bob laid out in regard to how certain threads go.


Pretty much my outlook on this thread as well. Not sure what's being asked. Seemed like Billy answered his own question somewhere in the word buffet.

And the thing is I love having to discuss issues of rules and even mechanics. I do them every day in multiple sports because I love officiating. But I have no idea what the freak he is asking. No idea whatsoever.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

I'll try to translate the question from BillyMac into normal English. He wants to know what the proper procedure is if the free-thrower is guilty of a delay, but the delay does not come offer a timeout or intermission.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

He wants to know what the proper procedure is if the free-thrower is guilty of a delay, but the delay does not come after a timeout or intermission.

I already know the proper procedure for that.

10.4.5 SITUATION: The ruling official has reported the foul and has given directions to players along the lane. The official is ready to put the ball at free thrower A1’s disposal, but A1 is at the sideline talking to the coach. RULING: A technical foul for delay is charged to A1. No warning is authorized in this situation. (10-3-5c)

I also know the proper procedure is if the free-thrower is guilty of a delay after a timeout or intermission.

8-1-2: Following a time-out or intermission, the resumption-of-play procedure may be used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the whistle to indicate play will resume. The ball must be placed at the disposal of the thrower or placed on the floor at the free-throw line and the count must begin. Either or both teams may be charged with a violation. Following a violation by one or both teams, if the offending team(s) continues to delay, a team technical foul must be ruled.

I’m still looking for rulebook and/or casebook citations if defenders delay getting into the first lane spaces on a free throw but the delay does not come after a timeout or intermission?

We have a casebook citation (below) telling us what to do after a timeout or intermission, but is there a rulebook and/or casebook citation when the delay does not come after a timeout or intermission?

9.1.2 SITUATION A: Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not -occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)

I’m also looking for a rulebook citation if the inbounder is guilty of a delay, but the delay does not come afer a timeout or intermission; as well as a rulebook citation if the non-inbounding team is guilty of a delay, but the delay does not come after a timeout or intermission?

We have a casebook citation (below) to cover the inbounding play, but is there an associated rulebook citation?

9.2.9 SITUATION: Following a violation, the official has properly signaled and awarded a throw-in to Team A at a designated spot. No Team A player comes to the spot even though the official has allowed ample time for them to respond. The official then places the ball on the floor and begins the five-second count …

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by billymac

i’m still looking for rulebook and/or casebook citations if defenders delay getting into the first lane spaces on a free throw but the delay does not come after a timeout or intermission?

8.1.4b

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not really know what you are asking.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But I have no idea what the freak he is asking. No idea whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Not sure what's being asked.

This:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What rulebook and/or casebook citations tell us how to handle other (not 10.4.5) delay situations during a throwin or a free throw not after a timeout or intermission where we simply place the ball on the floor (disposal), or give it to the team who is not delaying?

Note that in some situations (in all cases not after timeout or intermission) we have a casebook play but no associated rulebook citation (inbounding), while in other situations (first lane space) we have neither a casebook play nor an associated rulebook citation.

[Raymond]

I don't know what this means: "or give it to the team who is not delaying?"

[ilyazhito]

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

Agree, but need a "no timeout" citation, either rulebook or casebook.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On a free throw, assuming there is no timeout, the ball will be placed at the free thrower's disposal. A is not required to have people in the lane spaces, only B. If B is not in the lane spaces, the free throws will be administered, with a violation against B for not occupying the required spaces if the free throw is missed.

Incorrect.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Incorrect.

Rule 9-1-2 says that "Teams shall properly occupy marked lane spaces according to number and space requirements". Therefore, B not having players in the first marked lane spaces is a violation. I also cited the penalty under Rule 9 section 1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't know what this means: "or give it to the team who is not delaying?"

Good catch Raymond. Thank you.

Giving the ball it to the team who is not delaying usually occurs only after a timeout or intermission. Inbounding team is ready. Team not inbounding is still in their huddle even after the second horn and a strong whistle by the official. Give the ball to the inbounding team for an uncontested layup. For most officials, more of a rulebook written exam question rather than a real game situation. Most officials would use their game management skills (patience, location, voice, whistle) to get the non-inbounding team out onto the court.

That's (after a timeout or intermission) already covered in the resumption-of-play procedure rule.

More likely is putting the ball the floor when the inbounding team doesn't make an inbounder available. That can occur both after after a timeout or intermission, or not after a timeout or intermission. Resumption-of-play procedure covers after a timeout or intermission, casebook play (but no rule) covers not after a timeout or intermission.

[BillyMac]

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

My general question is: Why do my interpreters/trainers often stress that the resumption-of-play procedure is used following a timeout or intermission, when in reality it is used in many other situations not necessarily following a timeout or intermission, with two main exceptions, delay by the free thrower, and starting the second half, both of which are immediate technical fouls that do not involve placing the ball on the floor or giving it to the team who is not delaying.