The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 11:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 69
Question

Team A calls to prior to A1's free throws. After horn sounds, Team B is ready while Team A reamins with coach at the side line. Referee uses resuming of play procedure. A1 then steps into the free throw semi circle. Referee call a violation on A1. I believe this is the correct call. My buddy says it's a Technical. Who's right?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 11:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Jeff, if the delay occurs following a TO or intermission, the official should use the resumption of play procedure. If there is no TO or intermission, but the free thrower delays, it would be a technical foul.

So in your case, the official (and you ) was correct.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 11:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
I'm feeling rather weird this morning and, as I was reading the situation above, this bizarre picture popped into my head:

What if, TO, team A delays, resumption of play procedure...

Now the ball is on the floor in the circle, correct? and trail is counting, correct? (BTW, is it 10 sec, or 5 sec?), Okay, what if B2 now steps into the lane early? Has A1 already violated? No, if she had, the ball would have been called dead already. So do we have a delayed violation by B2, and if A1 doesn't step into the circle then the shot is "missed" (since A1 didn't shoot!) and A1 gets a substitute shot? Or what?

Maybe I just need to find my meds and get back to vacuuming...
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 11:57am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Juulie,you have a lane violation by B followed by a line violation by A.Double violation->AP.

Btw,count by trail is 10 seconds i.e.alloted time for FT shooter to shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 69
Exclamation

No more coffee from rainmaker!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Juulie,you have a lane violation by B followed by a line violation by A.Double violation->AP.

Btw,count by trail is 10 seconds i.e.alloted time for FT shooter to shoot.
Why is it a line violation by A, if she doesn't ever step into the circle?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 69
Ball is at his disposal...so 10 seconds to attempt the free throw. A1 will violate regardless.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,517
Jeff the Ref, My advice is to NOT let this happen. Go get to team out of the huddle.
__________________
foulbuster
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 69
Yup...preventive officiating!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,994
This came up at one of our meetings. Could someone please tell me why it is a violation to enter the free throw semi-circle if this is the correct player who is supposed to be shooting.
9-1-7 tells us it is a violation to cross the free throw line, but says nothing about entering the semi-circle.
10-3-7c clearly makes an exception to the T for delay when resuming-play procedure is in effect.
I just can't find anywhere in the rules where it is a violation to be late after a TO and come running in and take the merited free throw. I am talking only about the free throw shooter, not anyone coming in to a marked lane space.
Rules cite anyone?

[Edited by nevadaref on Nov 15th, 2002 at 04:26 AM]
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 9
I am a new guy, so if I am wrong, please be easy.

Actually, rule 9-1-7 does state that the thrower can't break the vertical plane of the free-throw line or the free-throw semicircle line.

There is a situation in the casebook on rule 9-1-7 for this that says specifically that this is a violation:

"After the ball has been placed at the disposal of the free thrower, he/she is not permitted to leave or enter the free-throw semicircle without violating, until restrictions have ended."

Or, he or his team calls timeout.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

John
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,994
Thanks JT.
This casebook play clearly says he is not allowed to enter. Which is what I was seeking.
Although, how the rules committee got this interpretation, I don't know, since the rule book doesn't mention entering only leaving.
But hey, I'll go with it.
PS Welcome to the board and also we cite rules with dashes 9-1-7 and casebook plays with periods 9.1.7 as they are written in the books. This will prevent confusion when others read your posts.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff the Ref
Ball is at his disposal...so 10 seconds to attempt the free throw. A1 will violate regardless.
Mmmmmm....not quite. A could be granted a time out before
A1 enters the semicircle to get the ball.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 02:32pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Juulie,you have a lane violation by B followed by a line violation by A.Double violation->AP.

Btw,count by trail is 10 seconds i.e.alloted time for FT shooter to shoot.
Why is it a line violation by A, if she doesn't ever step into the circle?
Just the way that they group them,juulie.I shouldn't have been lazy and looked up the proper rule citation for you.Take a look at R9-1Penalty4b.Second violation is by the FT shooter for either taking more than 10 seconds to shoot FT,or for entering semi-circle illegally after ball placed on floor.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 02:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,994
Hey JR and Mark T. DeNucci,
You guys have been around to see these rules evolve. Can you shed some light on the entering the free throw semi-circle interpretation in the casebook? 9.1.7
Was there ever a comment in past in either the casebook, rule book, or handbook about this?
I have been officiating HS ball for 7 years now, and am frustrated with many of the casebook interpretations because they often are not what the rules book says. I wish the rules committee would also change the wording of rules book if they decide that they want a certain casebook interpretation.
Thanks.
PS I have taken the attitude of an attorney with regard to this. I associate the written law with the rules book and the case law decisions of the judges are analogous to the casebook plays.
Now in the legal field both written code and case decisions have the force of law, so I give the same power to both the rules book and the casebook when I am officiating. However, in the legal field, the decisions of certain cases are often overturned and it can be argued that a court misinterpreted the law and decided wrongly. Laws are also changed, but usually less frequently than cases are overturned. Hence, I sometimes argue with the casebook, if it is not consistent with the rules book.

[Edited by nevadaref on Nov 14th, 2002 at 01:58 PM]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1