The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 12:44pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Beads ...

Most recent issue of IAABO Sportorial magazine came out today. It included some photos of legal and illegal equipment. It included the rule change regarding beads.

Hard adornments (beads) are allowed if they are securely fastened "close to the head" and do not present a risk to the player, teammates, or opponents.

It appears that beads that are not worn "close to the head", for example tied to long braids, are illegal.

Note that this is an IAABO interpretation, not a NFHS interpretation.



Not sure If I'm ready to debate with a coach, a young woman, or a young man, what "close to the head" means. Easy interpretation for the two photos on the left (legal) and the photo on the far right (illegal). Third photo from the left is interesting, beads are within a "bun", but not "close to the head", beads are up to two inches away for the scalp.

I guess it's based on whether, or not the beads can "swing around" and strike somebody in the eye?

Maybe I should laminate these photos and bring them with me to games?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 01, 2022 at 12:58pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 12:54pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Concussion Headbands ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Most recent issue of IAABO Sportorial magazine came out today. It included some photos of legal and illegal equipment.
Also included this:



It appears that "concussion headbands" have left the realm of headbands and have entered the realm of medical devices, and as such, are not color restricted?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 03:46pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,540
The NF came out with an interpretation using similar pictures and examples. IAABO is likely using the same information or examples. All in the last few months of Referee Magazine and even an example of soccer that had more examples of their rule that proceeded the basketball interpretation. I will try to post the pictures I used on my FB page.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 04:51pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Racist ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The NF came out with an interpretation using similar pictures and examples.
My biggest fear is that coaches, players, and parents will hear about beads now being legal and will misunderstand that to mean that all beads are legal.

Being a mostly middle school official, I know that many middle school coaches are often unaware of equipment rules, and have difficulty explaining such to players and parents.

I just don't want to be thought of as being a racist when I enforce the beads rule as intended by the NFHS and IAABO. I really don't want to see my name in the newspaper, or on the local television news, or in a viral internet post, as has happened to our colleagues in other sports (softball, wrestling) regarding ethnic hair issues over the past few years.

I like the beads in braids that are kept close to the scalp, it's a good look. Beads at the end of long braids are also a good look, but can be unsafe when swung around.

I sat in the bleachers near a Black mom braiding her young daughter's hair at a state tournament game a few years ago. What a great bonding experience for both of them. I truly hope that we can pull off this rule change with few problems. It's a good rule change. I hope that it doesn't come back to bite us in the ass, or smack us in the eye.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 02, 2022 at 02:58pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 04:55pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Bolero ...



Anybody (other than Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.) old enough to know who this is?

Hint: How would you rate her on a scale of one to ten?

Cultural misappropriation?

Illegal in a basketball game.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 01, 2022 at 04:59pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 05:23pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Most recent issue of IAABO Sportorial magazine came out today. It included some photos of legal and illegal equipment. It included the rule change regarding beads.

Hard adornments (beads) are allowed if they are securely fastened "close to the head" and do not present a risk to the player, teammates, or opponents.

It appears that beads that are not worn "close to the head", for example tied to long braids, are illegal.

Note that this is an IAABO interpretation, not a NFHS interpretation.



Not sure If I'm ready to debate with a coach, a young woman, or a young man, what "close to the head" means. Easy interpretation for the two photos on the left (legal) and the photo on the far right (illegal). Third photo from the left is interesting, beads are within a "bun", but not "close to the head", beads are up to two inches away for the scalp.

I guess it's based on whether, or not the beads can "swing around" and strike somebody in the eye?

Maybe I should laminate these photos and bring them with me to games?
Let's look at the far left picture in the group of pictures labeled: Head Decoration. I am waiting for a girl who is wearing beads all throughout her hair as in this picture to fall hard to the floor, her head hits the floor hard, the beads either break and sharp pieces are driven into her scalp or they do not break but are still driven into her scalp and either case cause bleeding, possibly server bleeding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The NF came out with an interpretation using similar pictures and examples. IAABO is likely using the same information or examples. All in the last few months of Referee Magazine and even an example of soccer that had more examples of their rule that proceeded the basketball interpretation. I will try to post the pictures I used on my FB page.

Peace
Jeff: You beat me to it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post


Anybody (other than Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.) old enough to know who this is?

Hint: How would you rate her on a scale of one to ten?

Cultural misappropriation?

Illegal in a basketball game.
Bonnie Jean is a 10 Bo is just an 8. That said, I have had two games in my career which involved beads as in the picture in the far right of the group of pictures labeled: Head Decoration. The first time was decades ago in a run of the mill weekend AAU tournament involving a girl in an 16U game. I told the girl that I could not make her take the beads out but I would not let her play while they were in her hair. This was not her team's first game in the tournament and no one had told her that she could not play with them in her hair. And of course her parents got the TD involved and he said that she could play. I told him that if that was his decision that I was going home and I went home! The second time was also decades ago at the YBOA Girls National Championship Tournament in the very first day of Pool Play. I told the girl that I could not make her take the beads out but I would not let her play while they were in her hair. She was a starter; her mother took the beads out but it took so long that she was not ready to play until the start of the Second QT.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 07:21am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

Anybody (other than Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.) old enough to know who this is?

...
I'm old and learned enough to know you left out Linda Evans from the harem.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Tue Aug 02, 2022 at 08:25am.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 05:59pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My biggest fear is that coaches, players, and parents will hear about beads now being legal and will misunderstand that to mean that all beads are legal.

Being a mostly middle school official, I know that many middle school coaches are often unaware of equipment rules, and have difficulty explaining such to players and parents.

I just don't want to be thought of as being a racist when I enforce the beads rule as intended by the NFHS and IAABO. I really don't want to see my name in the newspaper, or on the local television news, or in a viral internet post, as has happened to our colleagues in other sports regarding ethnic hair issues over the past few years.

I like the beads in braids that kept close to the scalp, it's a good look. Beads at the end of long braids are also a good look, but can be unsafe when swung around.

I sat in the bleachers near a Black mom braiding her young daughter's hair at a state tournament game a few years ago. What a great bonding experience for both of them. I truly hope that we can pull off this rule change with few problems. It's a good rule change. I hope that it doesn't come back to bite us in the ass, or smack us in the eye.
You realize that there are white girls that wear things in their hair too? I get that you want to be ultra-safe, but white people do a lot of things that other cultures do and act surprised when those things might be problematic. The image that was shown in Referee Magazine in soccer gave many examples of white people wearing their hair with things in them that would be deemed illegal.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 01, 2022, 06:03pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
See Photo Of Bo Derek ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You realize that there are white girls that wear things in their hair too?
Agree. Over thirty years of teaching middle school science, I've seen many White girls come back from a winter vacation in the Caribbean with beaded braids.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 11, 2022, 07:19am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I guess it's based on whether, or not the beads can "swing around" and strike somebody in the eye?

Maybe I should laminate these photos and bring them with me to games?
I hate to re-open this discussion, but this is from the VB interps -- my *guess* is that BK will have something similar:

2022-23 SITUATIONS
SITUATION 1: During team warmups, the officials notice a player on Team A wearing plastic beads at the end of hair braids. The braids, pulled back in a ponytail and secured with an elastic hair tie, (a) extend down the player’s back swaying back and forth as the player moves; (b) fall above the player’s shoulders moving within the plane of the player’s shoulders. RULING: (a) illegal, (b) legal. COMMENT: Hair-control devices and other adornments in the hair that are securely fastened and do not present a risk of injury to the player, teammates or opponents are permitted. In situation (a), the official shall notify the coach of Team A and allow the player to make the equipment legal by securing the beads closer to the head and within the plane of the shoulders to minimize risk of injury from swinging beads. (4-1-6)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 11, 2022, 08:33am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Plane Of The Shoulders ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I guess it's based on whether, or not the beads can "swing around" and strike somebody in the eye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
VB interps ... 2022-23 SITUATIONS SITUATION 1: During team warmups, the officials notice a player on Team A wearing plastic beads at the end of hair braids. The braids, pulled back in a ponytail and secured with an elastic hair tie, (a) extend down the player’s back swaying back and forth as the player moves; (b) fall above the player’s shoulders moving within the plane of the player’s shoulders. RULING: (a) illegal, (b) legal. COMMENT: Hair-control devices and other adornments in the hair that are securely fastened and do not present a risk of injury to the player, teammates or opponents are permitted. In situation (a), the official shall notify the coach of Team A and allow the player to make the equipment legal by securing the beads closer to the head and within the plane of the shoulders to minimize risk of injury from swinging beads. (4-1-6)
Thanks bob jenkins.

Not quite sure what the "plane of the shoulders" means.

Possibly this (horizontal plane at shoulder height):

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 11, 2022 at 08:37am.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2022, 01:33pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I hate to re-open this discussion, but this is from the VB interps -- my *guess* is that BK will have something similar:

2022-23 SITUATIONS
SITUATION 1: During team warmups, the officials notice a player on Team A wearing plastic beads at the end of hair braids. The braids, pulled back in a ponytail and secured with an elastic hair tie, (a) extend down the player’s back swaying back and forth as the player moves; (b) fall above the player’s shoulders moving within the plane of the player’s shoulders. RULING: (a) illegal, (b) legal. COMMENT: Hair-control devices and other adornments in the hair that are securely fastened and do not present a risk of injury to the player, teammates or opponents are permitted. In situation (a), the official shall notify the coach of Team A and allow the player to make the equipment legal by securing the beads closer to the head and within the plane of the shoulders to minimize risk of injury from swinging beads. (4-1-6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thanks bob jenkins.

Not quite sure what the "plane of the shoulders" means.

Possibly this (horizontal plane at shoulder height):


I do not care how the beads are attached. There was nothing wrong with the rule, as written before the 2022-23 school year.

Remember: If a player was not born wearing it then there is absolutely no reason to wear it when playing!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Mon Aug 15, 2022 at 12:24pm. Reason: Edited my response for clarity.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 14, 2022, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 12
“a risk of injury to the player, teammates, or opponents…”. Once again, nobody cares about us, the officials. My biggest reason not to allow the Bo Derek beads, is because I don’t want to get whacked in the side of the face. Unless Bo Derek is wearing them.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 15, 2022, 10:46am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Didn't Know That There Was Going To Be Math ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcopas View Post
“a risk of injury to the player, teammates, or opponents…”. Once again, nobody cares about us, the officials.
Bead is not properly secured and falls, unnoticed, to the floor. If someone steps on the bead, slips, and falls, guess who has a 17% (two person) or a 23% (three person) chance of slipping and falling?

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Aug 15, 2022 at 12:36pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 15, 2022, 06:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcopas View Post
“a risk of injury to the player, teammates, or opponents…”. Once again, nobody cares about us, the officials. My biggest reason not to allow the Bo Derek beads, is because I don’t want to get whacked in the side of the face. Unless Bo Derek is wearing them.
If you're at risk from a player's headwear, you're too close to the players.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Softball Player Forced To Cut Hair Beads ... BillyMac Basketball 27 Wed Jun 02, 2021 03:37pm
Beads in Hair cropduster Basketball 13 Thu Nov 30, 2006 01:37pm
what is the ruling on beads in the hair? Damian Basketball 12 Tue May 04, 2004 09:57am
Beads on Players Triangle NC ref Basketball 12 Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:17pm
Sweat Bands, Hair Beads eckert Basketball 8 Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:03am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1