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Old Fri May 14, 2021, 05:05pm
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Softball Player Forced To Cut Hair Beads ...

https://sports.yahoo.com/nc-softball...194036423.html

I don't think that I have a problem with a softball rule change for this situation.

I'll let you softball and baseball guys handle that discussion.

I just don't think that I would like a similar rule change to trickle across to basketball.

I observed many women in NCAA regular season and tournament games with legal, fashionable, probably culturally significant, long braided hair.

More so during this past season than in previous years.

Allowing beads to be added to hair like this changes the hair into a dangerous weapon.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri May 14, 2021 at 05:07pm.
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Old Fri May 14, 2021, 07:58pm
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She wasn't forced to cut her hair, some of her companions chose to go that route with some of her braids.

The classic "I've always been allowed to do this" argument doesn't fly with me.



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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 06:08am
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It always boggles the mind when you have players that have been playing sports most of their lives getting ear rings or choosing hairstyles just before or worse in the middle of the season that they know or should know will be issues with the rules for a game.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 06:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
It always boggles the mind when you have players that have been playing sports most of their lives getting ear rings or choosing hairstyles just before or worse in the middle of the season that they know or should know will be issues with the rules for a game.
As the parent of a 16-year-old daughter, what's most frustrating is the way many umpires deal with this stuff. Many summer rules sets do not ban jewelry and yet umpires still come in and make their own crap up, all in the name of "safety".

If playing with earrings and the like was so unsafe, why does the NCAA allow it?

I would never, ever make a girl choose her beads or not play, not now. Maybe 20 years ago I would've. Today I am aware at how culturally insensitive at best this can look and possibly worse, depending how the story is spun.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:00am
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Semantics ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
She wasn't forced to cut her hair, some of her companions chose to go that route with some of her braids.
Agree.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"You have to take out your earrings”, is occasionally stated by officials to players in the pregame layup lines who are wearing earrings. It’s only a minor difference in semantics, but it’s probably better, for legal liability reasons, to instead say, "You can't play, or even warm up, wearing jewelry". This puts the decision, to remove the earrings, or not to remove the earrings, on the player, or the coach, and possibly, on the parent, and takes any legal liability off the official’s shoulders.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:11am
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Should Of, Could Of, Would Of ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
It always boggles the mind when you have players that have been playing sports most of their lives getting ear rings or choosing hairstyles just before or worse in the middle of the season that they know or should know will be issues with the rules for a game.
While I agree with SNIPERBBB in theory, in practice we have officials who don't know (or enforce) the "fashion rules" even though they "should know" (and should enforce) said rules, so how can we expect players (and coaches) to know these rules better than officials?
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:20am
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Spread The Blame ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
The classic "I've always been allowed to do this" argument doesn't fly with me.
If Raymond is implying that they are lying, I can agree with him under many circumstances.

However, between poor coaching (lack of rules knowledge and/or lack of teaching) and poor officiating (lack of rules knowledge and/or lack of enforcement), this statement may be true in some circumstances, especially in games below the varsity level.

Officials, players, and coaches (let's also throw parents in the mix) are all to blame for this, I'm just not sure how to proportionately spread out the blame.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 15, 2021 at 09:32am.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:30am
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Not Woke Bad Guy ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I would never, ever make a girl choose her beads or not play, not now. Maybe 20 years ago I would've. Today I am aware at how culturally insensitive at best this can look and possibly worse, depending how the story is spun.
In softball, I can agree with Rich (disclaimer: I don't officiate softball), but until I hear differently from the NFHS, my state association, or my local board, I will continue to be the "not woke bad guy" in my basketball games.

No beads. No earrings. No long fingernails.

I am not unilaterally making any safety decisions not fully backed by somebody above my pay grade.

Safety sensitivity trumps culturally insensitivity in my basketball games.

Note: I did like the rule change allowing head coverings for religious reasons without state-level approval, so I do have some culturally sensitivity, I'm not a Neanderthal (although 23 And Me tells me that 4% of my DNA is Neanderthal).

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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 15, 2021 at 10:01am.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If Raymond is implying that they are lying, I can agree with him under many circumstances.

However, between poor coaching (lack of rules knowledge and/or lack of teaching) and poor officiating (lack of rules knowledge and/or lack of enforcement), this statement may be true in some circumstances, especially in games below the varsity level.

Officials, players, and coaches (let's also throw parents in the mix) are all to blame for this, I'm just not sure how to proportionately spread out the blame.
Even if they are telling the truth, it still doesn't fly because I can't officiate my game based on what somebody else did wrong in another game.

My response is often "I didn't work that game".

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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 09:47am
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I'm Here Tonight ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Even if they are telling the truth, it still doesn't fly because I can't officiate my game based on what somebody else did wrong in another game. My response is often "I didn't work that game".
I didn't mean to imply that, "I've always been allowed to do this", would affect my adjudication. My response would be similar, "I'm here tonight". I just wanted to point at that while many players, regarding their character, are lying, some may not be lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I can't officiate my game based on what somebody else did wrong in another game.
Two wrongs don't make a right (but two Wrights make an airplane).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Officials, players, and coaches (let's also throw parents in the mix) are all to blame for this, I'm just not sure how to proportionately spread out the blame.
We know not to blame Raymond and BillyMac.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 15, 2021 at 10:04am.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 10:14am
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Pants On Fire ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I just wanted to point at that while many players, regarding their character, are lying, some may not be lying.
The reason for my post: To me, lying is a major character flaw, a real deal breaker. As my parent's son, a parent myself, and a retired teacher, I hate liars. They drive my crazy. I once had an assistant principal chastise me for calling a student a liar instead of saying that she lied. While I agree that I was not being politically correct, the assistant principal was more upset with me for my language than being upset with the student for lying to me in front of an entire class of students. That assistant principal didn't last very long at my school.

Note: Not to say that I haven't dabbled in lying. Because of lying, my rear end once had a close encounter with a broom handle.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 15, 2021 at 02:18pm.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 05:25pm
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Lack Of Rules Knowledge ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... poor officiating (lack of rules knowledge) ...
We've got a few local varsity guys who believe that "school color" is still part of the rulebook (it isn't), and that compression shorts below the uniform shorts must be the same color as the uniform shorts (they don't).

I often wonder how often they crack open a rulebook?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 15, 2021 at 05:35pm.
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Old Sat May 15, 2021, 07:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
As the parent of a 16-year-old daughter, what's most frustrating is the way many umpires deal with this stuff. Many summer rules sets do not ban jewelry and yet umpires still come in and make their own crap up, all in the name of "safety".

If playing with earrings and the like was so unsafe, why does the NCAA allow it?

I would never, ever make a girl choose her beads or not play, not now. Maybe 20 years ago I would've. Today I am aware at how culturally insensitive at best this can look and possibly worse, depending how the story is spun.
The NCAA has fewer schools to deal with and the NCAA likely has more protections of liability. I would not compare that to the NF that likely has one state that has more members than the entire NCAA membership at all levels combined. And I would not ever make a girl take out the beads, but they are not playing with them in my games either. Sorry, had boys do that mess and they had to take them out or not play. Never tell them what to do with their hair, but they are not playing with them on my watch. And as others said, I am not responsible for what other officials/umpires do. The coach should know the damn rules and warn their players of the repercussions. But that is what we get when coaches are not required to take rules test or have to do something more than just complain when they are confronted with a situation.

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Old Sun May 16, 2021, 12:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post

The classic "I've always been allowed to do this" argument doesn't fly with me.
I had a player say something like that to me one time when I responded with..."No, I made you take them off last week."
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Old Sun May 16, 2021, 10:52am
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Character Counts ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
"I've always been allowed to do this" ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
... "No, I made you take them off last week."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... lying is a major character flaw ...
Players that wear the uniform of the school and the city represent that school and that city and have a responsibility and obligation to demonstrate good character.

If I were the coach of such a player, I would want to know.

As a retired coach, I would probably feel obligated to calmly let his head coach know about the lie, and the player's apparent lack of good character.

I would then proceed to work hard to not hold a grudge against that player and treat him fairly for the rest of the game.

Just sayin'.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue May 18, 2021 at 09:07am.
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