Play The Whistle …

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Official should blow their whistle immediately and declare the play dead before the throw-in ends.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The minute I hear the horn, I am probably killing the play and there is no "violation."

Agree.

I'm just not sure that my reaction time would allow for that. Best I could do would be to tell the coaches that I "killed" the play with the horn, but couldn't sound my whistle until the ball went out of bounds. Ball back to Team A, clock back to two seconds.

Of course, it all depends on how far the inbounds pass traveled until it went out of bounds. The longer the distance, the more likely I'm to "kill" the play with a whistle before the (OOB) throwin violation occurs.

Short inbound pass from the endline to the same side corner sideline, I'm probably not getting my "kill" whistle sounded before the violation, but the "kill" doesn't always require a whistle, it can also come with my decision to "kill".

Also, with two seconds left in tied game (or at the end of any period), I'm probably not waiting to see if the players can play through an erroneous horn. I'm "killing" it as soon as I can after the erroneous horn.

"Yeah coach. My whistle was late, but I had already deemed that the ball was dead".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

I'm just not sure that my reaction time would allow for that. Best I could do would be to tell the coaches that I "killed" the play with the horn, but couldn't sound my whistle until the ball went out of bounds. Ball back to Team A, clock back to two seconds.

Of course, it all depends on how far the inbounds pass traveled until it went out of bounds. The longer the distance, the more likely I'm to "kill" the play with a whistle before the (OOB) violation occurs.

If the horn goes off in the middle of the play, the play is already dead. Your whistle timing is to me irrelevant. You clearly have an inadvertent horn which you can deem affected the play. So your reaction time might matter to some, but it would not if I was on the game. I would likely recognize the play was going on and not just allow this to be a discussion about a violation verse a stoppage of play. Why is this such an issue?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the horn goes off in the middle of the play, the play is already dead.

Not always. Horn erroneously sounds for a substitute during a clock-running live ball in the first period. I'm waiting to see if the players can play through it. Sometimes they can. Sometime they can't.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You clearly have an inadvertent horn which you can deem affected the play.

Great point. Yes, I can deem the erroneous horn to have affected the play. Did it affect the play? That's the rub. Not sure here. Did the horn disrupt the play, or was it just a bad pass having nothing to do with the horn?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... with two seconds left in tied game (or at the end of any period), I'm probably not waiting to see if the players can play through an erroneous horn. I'm "killing" it as soon as I can after the erroneous horn ...

In this important situation, whether the players are affected by the erroneous horn, or not, I'm "killing" the play, even if my whistle is late.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not always. Horn erroneously sounds for a substitute during a clock-running live ball in the first period. I'm waiting to see if the players can play through it. Sometimes they can. Sometime they can't.

If the horn goes off and there is no time on the clock (and the clock should have started), what are they playing through?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Great point. Yes, I can deem the erroneous horn to have affected the play. Did it affect the play? That's the rub. Not sure here. Did the horn disrupt the play, or was it just a bad pass having nothing to do with the horn?

You don't have time on the clock. Where is the rub? What you going to wait until the play is over and then say the game is over?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In this important situation, whether the players are affected by the erroneous horn, or not, I'm "killing" the play, even if my whistle is late.

Again, if they get the ball, the play is over. So not sure why this is so hard to figure out?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the horn goes off and there is no time on the clock (and the clock should have started), what are they playing through?

Though not specifically mentioned, the implication was that the clock improperly started. At least that's how my friend and I read the question.

Theoretically, me mentally counting down the last two seconds, something I have always done at the end of every period for the past forty-plus years.

"Theoretically" because I'm "killing" this specific play and having a do-over.

My high school coaches always taught me to, "Play the whistle, not the horn".

And that was decades before high schools started to consider shot clocks.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Though not specifically mentioned, the implication was that the clock improperly started. At least that's how my friend and I read the question...

I read the play as simply the horn sounded since there was no mention of the clock starting.

If the clock started erroneously and went to 0:00, then I'm starting the throw-in over with time reset, regardless of what the ball did.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If the clock started erroneously and went to 0:00, then I'm starting the throw-in over with time reset, regardless of what the ball did.

Agree. I know that there are generally no "do-overs" in high school basketball, but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do, which is why basketball officials get paid the big bucks.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I read the play as simply the horn sounded since there was no mention of the clock starting.

Though probably not word for word as written by IAABO University, this (paraphrased below, I didn't record the phone call), is what my friend told me the over the phone, and why we believed that the clock had has erroneously started.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... Official resets the game clock to two seconds ...

Remember the game of "Telephone" that we played back in elementary school? By the time the message goes through all the students, it almost always changes.

I don't believe that that happened here. He read me the question word for word over the phone and there definitely was a resetting the clock back to two seconds involved, leading me to believe that the clock erroneously started causing the horn to erroneously sound.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Your whistle timing is to me irrelevant.

Agree.

Basketball Rules Fundamental #16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).