Shot Clocks

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... the rule states that it is a violation to be in continuous possession of a ball in a team's on backcourt for more than 10 seconds ...

And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

Officials' General Duties: Use the shot clock to administer the 10-second backcourt count (9-8). The Shot-Clock Operator Shall: Start the shot clock when: A player inbounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

As does NCAA

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As does NCAA.

I know more about rocket surgery than I do NCAA rules, but isn't the ten second rule different in NCAA compared to NFHS? In NCAA, doesn't the ten second count start on an inbounds touch?

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;1047072]And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know more about rocket surgery than I do NCAA rules, but isn't the ten second rule different in NCAA compared to NFHS? In NCAA, doesn't the ten second count start on an inbounds touch?

I don't quite see the difference here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't quite see the difference here.

NCAA (if I'm correct): Actual ten second rule (inbounds touch) matches how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

NFHS: Actual ten second rule (inbounds possession) does not match how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA (if I'm correct): Actual ten second rule (inbounds touch) matches how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

NFHS: Actual ten second rule (inbounds possession) does not match how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1043933

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA (if I'm correct): Actual ten second rule (inbounds touch) matches how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

NFHS: Actual ten second rule (inbounds possession) does not match how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

If the NFHS rule is to (as shown on nfhs.org) "Use the shot clock to administer the 10-second backcourt count (9-8). " then the practical effect is the same, at least for possessions that start with a full shot clock.

There are some differences (at least with NCAAW) when the ball gets knocked OOB by the defense, or there's a held ball (with the arrow favoring the offense) or the offense calls a TO. And, ilya is *technically* correct that if the 30-second shot clock shows, say, 25 AND the team is entitled to a new 10-seconds, the whistle shouldn't be blown until the shotclock shows14. Interps might make what is technically correct still wrong by rule.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the NFHS rule is to (as shown on nfhs.org) "Use the shot clock to administer the 10-second backcourt count (9-8). " then the practical effect is the same, at least for possessions that start with a full shot clock.

There are some differences (at least with NCAAW) when the ball gets knocked OOB by the defense, or there's a held ball (with the arrow favoring the offense) or the offense calls a TO. And, ilya is *technically* correct that if the 30-second shot clock shows, say, 25 AND the team is entitled to a new 10-seconds, the whistle shouldn't be blown until the shotclock shows14. Interps might make what is technically correct still wrong by rule.

I don't even think the NCAA-Men's rule and case books even address what we should do when we start a new 10-second under 30 seconds. It happens enough that it should be addressed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... then the practical effect is the same, at least for possessions that start with a full shot clock.

You think so?

Tell that to the Team A head coach.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

State high school championship final game. Shot clock used. Team B 65, Team A 64. Fourth period. Fifteen seconds left in game. Both teams come out of a timeout. Team A, with no timeouts remaining, inbounds in their backcourt. Inbounder A1 passes to A2, who muffs (shot clock legally start on inbounds touch) the ball away, but eventuality, after two seconds pass (with deflections but no control by both teams), secures control of the ball by holding it and the begins to dribble. Facing strong defensive pressure in his backcourt, A2 is still in his backcourt when the shot clock is at 25 seconds (game clock at five seconds) and the trail official calls a ten second violation on Team A. Team A head coach politely argues that Team A only had "control" of the ball for approximately eight seconds (proven after game on videotape) in the backcourt, quoting 9-8 and 4-2, and should not have had the ten second violation called, depriving Team A of a chance to win the game.

I just realized that the shot clock would be turned off. But one should still be able get the point.

Originally Posted by Raymond

NFHS can't even write the rule to be consistent with its own rules ...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA (if I'm correct): Actual ten second rule (inbounds touch) matches how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

NFHS: Actual ten second rule (inbounds possession) does not match how to use the shot clock (start on inbounds touch) for "counting" the ten second rule.

All the more reason I want no parts of a shot clock in HS. NFHS can't even write the rule to be consistent with its own rules, or at least note an exception, combined with HS officials who'll be making up their own interpretations.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know more about rocket surgery than I do NCAA rules, but isn't the ten second rule different in NCAA compared to NFHS? In NCAA, doesn't the ten second count start on an inbounds touch?

You've asked/stated this quite a few times. Do a search and you'll find where it's been answered quite a few times.