Shot Clocks

[Zoochy]

Unlike game clocks that show tenths of a second, I know shot clocks only show whole numbers.
But do they operate the same way? As soon as the shot clock starts, it goes from displaying 30 straight to 29. But we know a full second has not passed at this point. It is really 29 +up to 9 tenths.
So if a shot clock shows '0', has a violation occurred? Or does it have .9 more seconds left?
I ask this because of the end of regulation of the Oklahoma State University v Baylor game.
When shot clock hit '0', there was .7 still remaining on the game clock. OSU put up a shot that went in the basket between the shot clock terminating and the game clock terminating.
Shot clock shows 0. (Game clock shows .7)
OSU attempts a try
Game clock/Horn/lights on backboard illuminate.
Ball goes in the basket

The crew determined a shot clock violation and put .7 on the clock and gave the ball to Baylor.

Thoughts/Comments

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

But do they operate the same way? As soon as the shot clock starts, it goes from displaying 30 straight to 29. But we know a full second has not passed at this point. It is really 29 +up to 9 tenths.
So if a shot clock shows '0', has a violation occurred?

Haven't we discussed this before, but for game clocks?

Question came up as old fashioned mechanical scoreboards (click, click, click) became modern digital scoreboards, and when tenths of a second began being displayed. Some posters commented that some scoreboards showed a slightly different time on the scoreboard versus the console.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Unlike game clocks that show tenths of a second, I know shot clocks only show whole numbers.
But do they operate the same way?

So show tenths under 5 or 10 seconds.

In general (and there are some exceptions), the shot clocks operate differently from the game clocks. They are "round up" -- so it will show 30 for a second and then turn to 29. Thus, when it hits zero the horn sounds immediately.

[ilyazhito]

That is why the shot clock horn (or lights, if the shot clock has separate lights on it) determines shot clock violations. If the shot clock horn goes off before the shot is released, then we have a violation. That is why it is important as the referee before the game to listen carefully to both the shot clock and game clock horns. This will allow one to later pick up on the difference in close situations like the OP.

For the same reason, officials with a shot clock are advised to call a 10-second violation when the shot clock hits 19, because it is quite possible that a shot clock that is exactly at 21.0 will go down to 20 when the shot and game clocks start. If an official doesn't realize this, he may call the 10-second violation early, because the rule states that it is a violation to be in continuous possession of a ball in a team's on backcourt for more than 10 seconds. If the shot clock is at 19.9 (19 seconds showing), the more than criterion is satisfied, and thus there is a violation. For those using a 24-second shot clock and an 8-second count in the backcourt, the magic number is 15 seconds, because a shot clock won't show 10ths until the last 5 seconds.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

For the same reason, officials with a shot clock are advised to call a 10-second violation when the shot clock hits 19,

NCAAW (and I think NCAAM) call it when the clock hits 20 -- for the reasons I mentioned in my post above.

[ilyazhito]

I stand corrected. Daktronics shot clocks usually have a delay (they don't go immediately to 29), so assuming they were reset properly, the violation would occur at 20 (or 16, if a 24-second shot clock is used). If a specific manufacturer's shot clocks go immediately to 29, that is a programming error and needs to be corrected.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Haven't we discussed this before, but for game clocks?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In general (and there are some exceptions), the shot clocks operate differently from the game clocks. They are "round up" -- so it will show 30 for a second and then turn to 29. Thus, when it hits zero the horn sounds immediately.

This is exactly what we discussed on the Forum (a very long time ago).

Tried to search for old posts, but was unsuccessful.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Unlike game clocks that show tenths of a second, I know shot clocks only show whole numbers.
But do they operate the same way? As soon as the shot clock starts, it goes from displaying 30 straight to 29. But we know a full second has not passed at this point. It is really 29 +up to 9 tenths.
So if a shot clock shows '0', has a violation occurred? Or does it have .9 more seconds left?
I ask this because of the end of regulation of the Oklahoma State University v Baylor game.
When shot clock hit '0', there was .7 still remaining on the game clock. OSU put up a shot that went in the basket between the shot clock terminating and the game clock terminating.
Shot clock shows 0. (Game clock shows .7)
OSU attempts a try
Game clock/Horn/lights on backboard illuminate.
Ball goes in the basket

The crew determined a shot clock violation and put .7 on the clock and gave the ball to Baylor.

Thoughts/Comments

What did the game clock read when that particular Shot Clock cycle began? Was it 30.7 or above for a 30-second cycle or 20.7 or above for a 20-second cycle? By rule they can use the monitor to ascertain whether or not there was a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... the rule states that it is a violation to be in continuous possession of a ball in a team's on backcourt for more than 10 seconds ...

And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

Officials' General Duties: Use the shot clock to administer the 10-second backcourt count (9-8). The Shot-Clock Operator Shall: Start the shot clock when: A player inbounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

As does NCAA

[Raymond]

The play-by-play reflects differently than described in the OP.

0:35 Adam Flagler missed Three Point Jumper. 60 - 60
0:35 Bryce Williams Defensive Rebound. 60 - 60
0:24 Oklahoma State Timeout 60 - 60
0:02 Bryce Thompson missed Jumper. 60 - 60
0:02 Isaac Likekele Offensive Rebound. 60 - 60
0:01 Oklahoma State Turnover. 60 - 60
0:00 End of 2nd half 60 - 60

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As does NCAA.

I know more about rocket surgery than I do NCAA rules, but isn't the ten second rule different in NCAA compared to NFHS? In NCAA, doesn't the ten second count start on an inbounds touch?

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Raymond

What did the game clock read when that particular Shot Clock cycle began? Was it 30.7 or above for a 30-second cycle or 20.7 or above for a 20-second cycle? By rule they can use the monitor to ascertain whether or not there was a violation.

I did find a video on YouTube to try to see the situation you are asking. It is a condensed video, thus cannot see the game clock when the final 30 sec shot clock begins.
But upon watching this YouTube video, I do hear 2 separate horns. The 1st horn does delay slightly after the shot clock displays '0' and the second when the game clock shows 0.00
The ball appears to be in the hands of the OSU player when the 1st horn sounds
Go to 8:00 on the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiXhLnaj6kA
Also it looks like the ball passes over the backboard on the try

[Raymond]

If you stop/start the video you can see the game clock reads 2.7 while the shot clock reads 2. The shot clock still reads 2 when the game clock reads 2.5 and 2.0. Therefore, any shot taken after the game clock read 0.7 would be a violation.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;1047072]And yet the NFHS has the shot clock start on an inbounds touch, not an inbounds possession?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know more about rocket surgery than I do NCAA rules, but isn't the ten second rule different in NCAA compared to NFHS? In NCAA, doesn't the ten second count start on an inbounds touch?

I don't quite see the difference here.