Backcourt rule on a throw-in

[Mingram]

NCAA rules. Team A inbounds under team B's basket. The throw goes long but not before a team A player tips it in the front court. The balls goes to the back court where a team A player retrieves it. Official calls a tipped ball, no backcourt violation. Did he get it wrong or does team A first have to establish themselves in the front court (two feet and the ball)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mingram

NCAA rules. Team A inbounds under team B's basket. The throw goes long but not before a team A player tips it in the front court. The balls goes to the back court where a team A player retrieves it. Official calls a tipped ball, no backcourt violation. Did he get it wrong or does team A first have to establish themselves in the front court (two feet and the ball)?

Correct call (and the "two feet and the ball" metric is used ONLY when dribbling the ball from the BC to the FC, so it has no bearing on this play)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... the "two feet and the ball" metric is used ONLY when dribbling the ball from the BC to the FC, so it has no bearing on this play ...

Also a good reminder to high school officials.

[ilyazhito]

The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt, so no violation is possible.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt, so no violation is possible.

It's possible to have a violation without there being PC in the FC.

Play: A1 passes the ball from the BC. The ball hits the referee who is standing in A's FC. The ball rebounds to the BC where A1 (or A2) is the rist to touch the ball. Ruling: BC violation (even though "The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's possible to have a violation without there being PC in the FC.

Play: A1 passes the ball from the BC. The ball hits the referee who is standing in A's FC. The ball rebounds to the BC where A1 (or A2) is the rist to touch the ball. Ruling: BC violation (even though "The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt."

Even more likely...

Play: A1 passes the ball from the BC. The ball hits A4 who is standing in A's FC. The ball rebounds to the BC where A1 (or A2) is the first to touch the ball. Ruling: BC violation (even though "The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Play: A1 passes the ball from the BC. The ball hits the referee who is standing in A's FC. The ball rebounds to the BC where A1 (or A2) is the rist to touch the ball. Ruling: BC violation (even though "The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt."

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Play: A1 passes the ball from the BC. The ball hits A4 who is standing in A's FC. The ball rebounds to the BC where A1 (or A2) is the first to touch the ball. Ruling: BC violation (even though "The ball was never in player control in the frontcourt."

I'm assuming that these are not inbounding situations (as described in the original post).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm assuming that these are not inbounding situations (as described in the original post).

Well, since both situations said "A1 passes the ball from the BC...." there's not much assuming needed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm assuming that these are not inbounding situations (as described in the original post).

The ball does not have front court or back court status on a throw-in, so if somebody describes a situation as a pass from the back court, we know it's not a throw-in.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mingram

NCAA rules. Team A inbounds under team B's basket. The throw goes long but not before a team A player tips it in the front court. The balls goes to the back court where a team A player retrieves it. Official calls a tipped ball, no backcourt violation. Did he get it wrong or does team A first have to establish themselves in the front court (two feet and the ball)?

Subsequent a throw-in (or jump ball/free throw/ try for goal), there must be player control somewhere on the court before any of the other elements of a back court violation are considered. Since the initial establishment of player control was in the back court, everything starts from that point.

This applies to high school and college.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The ball does not have front court or back court status on a throw-in, so if somebody describes a situation as a pass from the back court, we know it's not a throw-in.

After reading the original inbounding post, the two "twists" just gave me pause for a few seconds.

[ilyazhito]

The ball is nowhere on a throw-in, because it is out of bounds. A ball from nowhere does not have status until team control is gained, so no backcourt violation is possible yet, since the tip of the ball does not constitute team control.

Because I typically work games with a shot clock, my criterion for team control is "would the shot clock reset?". If my answer is no, no team control has been gained. For those of you without a shot clock, the criterion would be "has possession been established or changed".