End of quarter - "All related activity"

[ilyazhito]

The related activity is reporting the foul. Since related activity for period 2 had not yet ended, intermission had not started, and the player who mouthed off is still a player. The technical foul and free throws are shot as part of the 3rd period, and Team B gets possession regardless of the arrow. The arrow is used for the next AP throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The related activity is reporting the foul. Since related activity for period 2 had not yet ended, intermission had not started, and the player who mouthed off is still a player. The technical foul and free throws are shot as part of the 3rd period, and Team B gets possession regardless of the arrow. The arrow is used for the next AP throw-in.

Reference?

Either way, the rest of your statement is again incorrect.

If period 2 has not ended, then the FTs are shot as part of period 2, there is no throw-in for the T and period 3 starts with the "normal" AP throw-in.

Or, period 2 has ended and period 3 starts with the FTs for the T and the throw-in for the T.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... when did the quarter end ... after the foul is reported?

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The related activity is reporting the foul.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Reference?

Interesting take on this situation (no free throws due to player control foul).

Worthy of further discussion?

Ball can't get deader than dead? Dead is dead? Right?

Seems pretty binary. Only two choices. Dead. Or live.

5-6 Exceptions:
2. If a held ball or violation occurs so near the expiration of time that the clock is not stopped before time expires, the quarter or extra period ends with the held ball or violation.
3. If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next, except when a correctable error, as in 2-10, is rectified.
4. If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter or extra period, the next quarter or extra period is started by administering the free throws. This applies when the foul occurs after any quarter has ended, including the fourth quarter, provided there is to be an extra period.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Interesting take on this situation (no free throws due to player control foul).

...

End of 3rd Quarter. Airborne A1 releases try before horn, crashes into defender after horn. PCF is ruled. As Ref is reporting foul, which is A1's 5th, A1 yells out "that was bullsh!t".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

End of 3rd Quarter. Airborne A1 releases try before horn, crashes into defender after horn. PCF is ruled. As Ref is reporting foul, which is A1's 5th, A1 yells out "that was bullsh!t".

"Dead" ball may have ended the third period.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-6 Exception 4: If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter or extra period, the next quarter or extra period is started by administering the free throws. This applies when the foul occurs after any quarter has ended, including the fourth quarter, provided there is to be an extra period.

Raymond may be implying that the reporting of the foul, as well as the disqualification procedure, is "related activity" and thus, still part of the third period, and thus, the unsporting technical foul is also part of the third period.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5-6 Exception 3: The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period.

This thread has taken a very interesting turn.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Worthy of further discussion?

Yes, please.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The related activity is reporting the foul.

No, it isn't. Reporting is a scorekeeping task, not a related activity. Related activities are things that occur in the game itself, not what the officials do. Related activity is anything that happens with the FTs, like a FT violation, or a timeout taken before the FTs are completed.


The moment the ball becomes dead and there are no FTs pending, the quarter is over and anything that happens is now part of the next quarter.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The moment the ball becomes dead and there are no FTs pending, the quarter is over and anything that happens is now part of the next quarter.

Nicely and simply stated. I agree, but others may not.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No, it isn't. Reporting is a scorekeeping task, not a related activity. Related activities are things that occur in the game itself, not what the officials do. Related activity is anything that happens with the FTs, like a FT violation, or a timeout taken before the FTs are completed.


The moment the ball becomes dead and there are no FTs pending, the quarter is over and anything that happens is now part of the next quarter.

Related activity is not defined in the rulebook, so either of us might be right. If the quarter is over, then by rule the players become bench personnel, and the coach would have to sit in the 3rd quarter, because all team members are bench personnel during an intermission. Do you want to go this route?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Related activity is not defined in the rulebook, so either of us might be right. If the quarter is over, then by rule the players become bench personnel, and the coach would have to sit in the 3rd quarter, because all team members are bench personnel during an intermission. Do you want to go this route?

For what it’s worth, I agree with Camron. Those of us who have been officiating much longer than you, have a better sense of what the NFHS means by certain phrases in the rules book. Of course, the veterans can be incorrect from time to time, but we definitely have more experience working with these rules and their language.

Yes, I would consider the player to now be bench personnel and assess an indirect to the HC as part of the penalty.

(Note: BillyMac, find the song reference in this post!)

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For what it’s worth,

(Note: BillyMac, find the song reference in this post!)

I'm quicker witted than BillyMac, and I didn't have to ask Google...

Buffalo Springfield!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80_3..._channel=RHINO

[Altor]

So, going back to my OQ, what I'm gathering is:

Nobody has a hard reference as to whether reporting the foul is "related activity." Most seem to think it isn't, which was my first instinct.

The rest I knew:
If it is part of 2Q: The FTs are shot before the intermission clock starts. 3Q starts with the AP arrow.

If it is part of 3Q: V-HC is additionally assessed and indirect TF and has to sit the rest of the game. The FTs are shot after the intermission clock ends. After the FTs, H is awarded a throw-in opposite the table as part of the penalty. The arrow does not change.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Altor

So, going back to my OQ, what I'm gathering is:

Nobody has a hard reference as to whether reporting the foul is "related activity." Most seem to think it isn't, which was my first instinct.

The rest I knew:
If it is part of 2Q: The FTs are shot before the intermission clock starts. 3Q starts with the AP arrow.

If it is part of 3Q: V-HC is additionally assessed and indirect TF and has to sit the rest of the game. The FTs are shot after the intermission clock ends. After the FTs, H is awarded a throw-in opposite the table as part of the penalty. The arrow does not change.

If you desire a case play or an NFHS annual interpretation ruling, you won’t find one. I haven’t seen such in 25 years.

However, if you look at the text of the rule, I believe that it is quite clear.

“…the quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed.”

So for a period to not end when the ball becomes dead following the period-ending horn, there must be a foul while a try is in flight and that foul must result in free throws. Since a PC foul does not, this exception does not apply and the quarter is over.

Additionally, the phrase “and all related activity” refers to the free throws, not the quarter, so if there aren’t any free throws, then there cannot be any related activity.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For what it’s worth ... (Note: BillyMac, find the song reference in this post!)

Originally Posted by justacoach

I'm quicker witted than BillyMac, and I didn't have to ask Google...Buffalo Springfield!!!

Nice pop culture reference Nevadaref. Thanks.

Thanks justacoach. I was stumped.

I am very familiar with the song, but didn't know the real name of the song. I thought it was "Stop, Hey What's That Sound".

Stephen Stills said that the name of the song came about when he presented it to the record company executives, "I have this song here, for what it's worth, if you want it." The executives gave the single the parenthetical title "For What It's Worth (Stop, Hey What's That Sound)" (often referred to as simply "For What It's Worth") in order that the song would be more easily recognized.

I'm surprised that I didn't know this. I'm a Stephen Stills and Neil Young (Buffalo Springfield band members) fan (along with Graham Nash and David Crosby).

For the young'uns, the band took their name from a steamroller parked outside their house.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For the young'uns, the band took their name from a steamroller parked outside their house.

"I’m not sure where they got their name but I know that in the past year they sold enough records and made enough money to buy Buffalo and half of Springfield."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Related activity is not defined in the rulebook, so either of us might be right. If the quarter is over, then by rule the players become bench personnel, and the coach would have to sit in the 3rd quarter, because all team members are bench personnel during an intermission. Do you want to go this route?

Either of us might be right, sure. But, I can tell you it isn't you.

Once time is expired and there are no FTs left, yes, they're all bench personnel and everything that implies. So, yes, I want to go that route because that is the rule.