Time Out

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While requested the TO when white had the ball, you acknowledged it when white had the ball, you blew the whistle. A little bit slow on the whistle doesn't change the fact that you heard it and decided to grant it when white had the ball. White timeout, white ball.

Knowing that the official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead), what if rbruno, for whatever reason (loud crowded gym, poor sightlines, etc.) needed split seconds to mentally (and possibly visually) evaluate the request (possibly turning his head away for a spit second), and then when finally satisfied the request was legal (appropriate head coach) and when he finally (possibly turning his attention back to the players) decided to grant (no whistle needed), white had lost possession of the ball in those split seconds? Or worse, the ball was on it's way out of bounds, or the ball was in midair as a try, or red had possession of the ball?

I won't go as far as to say that Camron Rust is wrong, but I still believe that the rule language is "fuzzy" at best.

5-8-3-A: Grants and signals a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.

[billyu2]

Seldom does not mean “always.” A request for a time out is not the same as a player with the ball stepping on a boundary, or a foul, or an errant pass landing out of bounds. A coach’s request when his player has control of the ball simply means it was a valid request. A prudent official will make sure there is still player control before granting the time out in my opinion.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

A coach’s request when his player has control of the ball simply means it was a valid request. A prudent official will make sure there is still player control before granting the time out in my opinion.

Well stated, and I personally agree with you, but it's opinion based on "fuzzy" rule language.

I would not bet my house that our opinion is correct. Ten bucks, maybe, but not my house.

[billyu2]

Many times officials will rule in favor of the coach, saying the “request” was made when there was player control. Are we simply in too big of a hurry to oblige the coach his time out request? Why? If the coach doesn’t understand by rule we must first be certain of the status of the ball (PC) before granting his time out request, that is his problem not ours. Locate the ball. Then make your decision. PC, yes? Whistle, grant time out. No PC? No whistle. No time out. The principle here is not any different than ruling on the release of a last-second shot. Would any official whistle the ball dead without accurate knowledge of the location of the ball? Locate the ball. Ball touching hand? Whistle, no shot. Ball in flight? No whistle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Many times officials will rule in favor of the coach, saying the “request” was made when there was player control ... If the coach doesn’t understand by rule we must first be certain of the status of the ball (PC) before granting his time out request, that is his problem not ours. Locate the ball. Then make your decision. PC, yes? Whistle, grant time out. No PC? No whistle. No time out.

Agree with billyu2's well worded post, as do points of emphasis (with fuzzy wording similar to the actual fuzzy language of the actual rule) published over six different years.

However a twenty-three year old interpretation seems, at first glance, to disagree with both of us.

1998-99 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations: Situation 8: A1 is dribbling the ball in the frontcourt. The ball bounces off his leg into the backcourt. As A1 goes into backcourt to retrieve the ball, the head coach requests a time-out. Can the time-out request by the head coach be granted by the officials? Ruling: No. Team must be in player control when the verbal or visual request is made by the head coach and recognized by the official. (5-8-3a)

However, the phrase "and recognized by the official" can also be considered slightly fuzzy language.

Originally Posted by billyu2

The principle here is not any different than ruling on the release of a last-second shot. Would any official whistle the ball dead without accurate knowledge of the location of the ball? Locate the ball. Ball touching hand? Whistle, no shot. Ball in flight? No whistle.

Appreciate the effort from billyu2, but this is not an analogous situation. We can keep our "eye on the ball" 100% of the time while we listen for the horn at the same time. Also, there's no fuzzy language regarding a shot at the buzzer, it's pretty much straight forward.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree with billyu2's well worded post, as do points of emphasis (with fuzzy wording similar to the actual fuzzy language of the actual rule) published over six different years.

However a twenty-three year old interpretation seems, at first glance, to disagree with both of us.

1998-99 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations: Situation 8: A1 is dribbling the ball in the frontcourt. The ball bounces off his leg into the backcourt. As A1 goes into backcourt to retrieve the ball, the head coach requests a time-out. Can the time-out request by the head coach be granted by the officials? Ruling: No. Team must be in player control when the verbal or visual request is made by the head coach and recognized by the official. (5-8-3a)

However, the phrase "and recognized by the official" can also be considered slightly fuzzy language.



Appreciate the effort from billyu2, but this is not an analogous situation. We can keep our "eye on the ball" 100% of the time while we listen for the horn at the same time. Also, there's no fuzzy language regarding a shot at the buzzer, it's pretty much straight forward.

Actually, I never said the situations were comparable. I said it is the principle of being absolutely sure of the location of the ball that is imperative in both situations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

... being absolutely sure of the location of the ball that is imperative in both situations.

Agree.