CE Scenario

[Raymond]

Unfortunately we have to take the point off the scoreboard and Team B retains the ball. It's a horrible situation. That's why I track team fouls on the scoreboard every time a team commits a foul.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Unfortunately we have to take the point off the scoreboard and Team B retains the ball. It's a horrible situation.

Sometimes the correctable error remedy just doesn't seem fair. But we have to live with it. It is what it is.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sometimes the correctable error remedy just doesn't seem fair. But we have to live with it. It is what it is.

It's why we need to be extra diligent and not have the attitude of "it's not my job to think that hard".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's why we need to be extra diligent and not have the attitude of "it's not my job to think that hard".

Especially in my middle school games, with no team fouls on the scoreboard, and students often at the table. My antennae always go up when we get close and I always ask, "How many fouls?". My game awareness must be pretty good because the most common answer I get is, "Six", which I relay to my partner. While it may not be my job to keep track of team fouls, it is my job to be aware of important game situations.

Worked a middle school game this week with no scorebook for either team. No team fouls on scoreboard. Three students at the table. Personal and team fouls were kept track of on a sheet of paper torn from a notebook. The kids did a good job, but my partner and I were on "red alert" the entire game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Especially in my middle school games, with no team fouls on the scoreboard, and students often at the table. My antennae always go up when we get close and I always ask, "How many fouls?". My game awareness must be pretty good because the most common answer I get is, "Six", which I relay to my partner. While it may not be my job to keep track of team fouls, it is my job to be aware of important game situations.

Worked a middle school game this week with no scorebook for either team. No team fouls on scoreboard. Three students at the table. Personal and team fouls were kept track of on a sheet of paper torn from a notebook. The kids did a good job, but my partner and I were on "red alert" the entire game.

Get one of those football down-indicators that are worn on the wrist Move it to a different finger for each foul (presumably you'd have enough game awareness to know the difference between the first foul and the sixth).

insert your own blue font

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Get one of those football down-indicators that are worn on the wrist Move it to a different finger for each foul (presumably you'd have enough game awareness to know the difference between the first foul and the sixth).

By using both my fingers and toes, I could keep track of team fouls all the way up to the "double bonus" for both teams.

Of course, that would be difficult for someone like my high school wood shop teacher (and driver education instructor) Mr. Klemkowski, who was missing a thumb. When he taught us how to use the band saw safely, we all listened intently.

[JRutledge]

The table screwed up and the teams allowed them to screw up without saying anything before. That simple. Not about the rule being fair IMO. If you are on top of this you would be raising the flag before we shoot the FT. Considering that is not a common complaint, I might listen and try to investigate.

Yes I try to monitor the scoreboard, but it has been wrong so many times in my career I ask but they ultimately tell me where we are.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"How many fouls?"

Note that I don't ask, "Are we in the bonus?".

Learned not to ask that a long time ago in my middle school games. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Especially at the beginning of the season, many middle school students at the table aren't really sure what the "bonus" means.

After twenty-five years of coaching middle school basketball, thirty years of officiating Catholic middle school games on my off nights of full varsity schedules, and the last four years of a steady diet of middle school games, I'm whatcha call a middle school basketball officiating expert.

Yep, on my tombstone it will say, "Here Lies BillyMac, Middle School Basketball Officiating Expert".

Hopefully not too soon.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Unfortunately we have to take the point off the scoreboard and Team B retains the ball. It's a horrible situation. That's why I track team fouls on the scoreboard every time a team commits a foul.

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Agree with the ruling, but I don't think it is that bad of a situation. It just puts some of the responsibility also on team A to make sure they're not taking FTs they don't deserve. They typically know how many fouls they have too, just like the other team did. If they sit back and allow it to occur when they know otherwise, they're doing so at the risk of losing the FTs and the ball....you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree with the ruling, but I don't think it is that bad of a situation. It just puts some of the responsibility also on team A to make sure they're not taking FTs they don't deserve. They typically know how many fouls they have too, just like the other team did. If they sit back and allow it to occur when they know otherwise, they're doing so at the risk of losing the FTs and the ball....you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Have always hated that line of reasoning to mitigate the crew's (table/officials) responsibility and guilt in the situation. Why should coaches be more aware than officials? Opens the door (or it's already open and been entered) for opponents (especially home teams) to allow the free throws to be shot then wait until they are in possession to issue the challenge.

Must just be the military in me...don't pass the buck.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Have always hated that line of reasoning to mitigate the crew's (table/officials) responsibility and guilt in the situation. Why should coaches be more aware than officials? Opens the door (or it's already open and been entered) for opponents (especially home teams) to allow the free throws to be shot then wait until they are in possession to issue the challenge.

Must just be the military in me...don't pass the buck.

It is not about buck passing, it is about balance of fairness when the situation happens.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Have always hated that line of reasoning to mitigate the crew's (table/officials) responsibility and guilt in the situation. Why should coaches be more aware than officials? Opens the door (or it's already open and been entered) for opponents (especially home teams) to allow the free throws to be shot then wait until they are in possession to issue the challenge.

Must just be the military in me...don't pass the buck.

I disagree because we can ask the table all kinds of things and be given totally wrong information. So I do not put much responsibility on the officials if we are asking or clarifying what we are to do after a foul related to the foul count. Even last night I had a table mix up the fouls on the board and we had to ask for clarification and it was corrected. But if we did not notice (or me specifically) we might have done something incorrectly in the future.

Peace