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Circumventing Rules ...
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If this situation appears on a written exam, I take a chance on an incorrect answer of calling picking up this fumbled try a legal play. If this situation happens in a real game in real time, and the first thing that pops into my mind is "Fumble" (not "He dropped it"), I'll pass on a whistle, and if anybody complains, I'll confidently explain "It was a fumble", and unless it was the final play of a tied game, my call will probably be forgotten. Camron Rust: In your great, well written, rational post, why did you call it a de facto dribble? Why not just "dribble"? De facto means being in effect though not formally recognized. So, is it a formally recognized dribble, or is it not a formally recognized dribble? By choosing the phrase "de facto" are you consciously, or unconsciously admitting that this situation may be a "gap" or "blind spot" in the rules, as posted by Raymond earlier?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 18, 2021 at 02:19pm. |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 01:56am. |
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Brilliant ...
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Thanks for your time and effort. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this. Much appreciated. It wasn't in vain. You haven't completely changed my mind, but have left me scratching my head. I wish the NFHS had a caseplay with a fumble. 4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation. 4.25.2 SITUATION: A1 jumps to try for goal or to pass the ball. B1 leaps or reaches and is able to put his/her hands on the ball and keep A1 from releasing it. A1: (a) returns to the floor with the ball; or (b) is unable to control the ball and it drops to the floor. RULING: A held ball results immediately in (a) and (b) when airborne A1 is prevented from releasing the ball to pass or try for goal.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 01:41pm. |
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Very Interesting ...
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Wonder why the NFHS specifically stated "touches it first after it bounces"? Is it possible that the NFHS wants us to wait for a touch to insure that this is not the start of a legal bounce pass?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 04:15pm. |
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Blocked Shot ...
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 04:15pm. |
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No.
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Blocked Shot ...
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So this (below) part of my list isn't true. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball ... the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It's been on my list for almost fifteen years, published annually on the Forum, in an IAABO Sportorials magazine available to 15,000 IAABO members, duplicated on many basketball officiating websites, and nobody ever complained about it. I hate this entire attempted shot paragraph. But it's necessary. I just have to write it better. The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 05:23pm. |
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Last edited by bob jenkins; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 05:31pm. |
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Strike Through ...
Thanks, I'll check it out tomorrow.
How does one achieve a strike through on the Forum?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 19, 2021 at 05:39pm. |
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Final Draft ...
How's this? Can we now put this to bed? Now separated into two paragraphs. Note that I avoided saying anything that may be considered controversial about fumbles.
The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. If a defender puts a hand(s) on a ball controlled by airborne shooter (or passer), such that the airborne player is unable to release the ball, that player has not traveled, it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne player chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the airborne player loses control of the ball because of the touch, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal (or passes), sees that the try (or pass) will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Dec 20, 2021 at 12:58pm. |
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Jinx ...
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Kid barely five feet tall shooting against a kid six feet plus. You should have seen the terrified look on the shooter's face. Thank God it didn't involve a fumble. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Dec 20, 2021 at 06:44pm. |
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Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk |
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Karma ...
Shut up. You were the one worried about it in a real game. It was supposed to happen to you, not to me.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36) |
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Just called a travel in the Wyoming-Stanford game late in the first half at the Diamond Classic. Called once the player put the ball down to the floor.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael Mick Chambers (1947-2010) |
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