The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm the "some", and JRutledge is correct, that's how the rule reads.

But since I can't read minds, in a real game, I'm waiting until the airborne player (who purposely drops the ball) touches the ball after it hits the floor. This is the only way I can know with 100% certainty that it wasn't an intended (legal) bounce pass, no such thing as a "self pass".

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

You do not have to read minds. We make rulings all the time based on our judgment. If you do not know when someone does something or something looks like it is on purpose then I guess officiating is going to be hard for some folks.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot explain why some here like to nitpick everything ...

Because when I write something, put my name on it, and publish it, I want to be 100% certain that what I wrote is 100% factual.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We make rulings all the time based on our judgment.

Agree. But if there's a teammate nearby, I might wait a second. One can intentionally drop the ball to make a bounce pass.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because when I write something, put my name on it, and publish it, I want to be 100% certain that what I wrote is 100% factual.

You should be able to write up something and know that you have to make a decision. The same is like if a player jumps in the air and is fouled. You have to decide if they are shooting or if they were passing. You have to decide if a player is passing or fumbles the ball and starts another dribble. You have to decide if an act was an attempt to throw a punch or if they were doing something normal. There are just examples of judgment.

But if you think this is a misunderstood rule, it really is not. Many people know it is a violation, but that is on your to include it or not.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The same is like if a player jumps in the air and is fouled. You have to decide if they are shooting or if they were passing ...

Agree, and I always state immediately and loudly, "That was a shot" (especially if the ball wasn't released due to a holding foul), or, "That was a pass".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if you think this is a misunderstood rule, it really is not ...

The entire paragraph is about shot attempts. Fans often yell, "Travel" in response to an airball that's grabbed by the shooter. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, fans yell "Up and down". In the situation where the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball and comes down, fans yell, "Jump ball". When a shooter loses control of the ball because of a block, and then dribbles the ball, fans yell, "Double dribble". And some players, coaches, and rookie officials make the same mistakes as fans.

Of course, those are all incorrect interpretations of the rules, thus, misunderstood rules.

And there are some nit-picking misunderstood rule language issues as well. No such thing as an "Up and down" violation, it's really a "Travel", fans yelling for "Jump balls" are really calling for a "Held balls", and a "Double dribble" is really an "Illegal dribble".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up ...

I'm basing this on two old adages, one can always pick up a fumble, and one has to be holding the ball to travel.

What say you Camron Rust? I'm always interested in your take on such matters.

[Raymond]

The significance of being able to recover a fumbled ball is that it's not considered a dribble, therefore you wouldn't be committing an illegal dribble.

You can however fumble ball and commit a travel if you jump in the air, fumble the ball, and then retrieve the ball.

There is a difference between jumping in the air and purposely dropping the ball and jumping in the air and fumbling the ball.

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[BillyMac]

Thanks for your input Raymond. It's greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

The significance of being able to recover a fumbled ball is that it's not considered a dribble, therefore you wouldn't be committing an illegal dribble. You can however fumble ball and commit a travel if you jump in the air, fumble the ball, and then retrieve the ball.

Makes sense. But doesn't one have to be holding a ball at the same time one illegally moves a pivot foot to travel?

Originally Posted by Raymond

There is a difference between jumping in the air and purposely dropping the ball and jumping in the air and fumbling the ball.

While the intent is certainly different, wouldn't you say that both of these are travel violations (based on your post above)?

Still waiting for that ah-ha moment that I almost always get from Raymond, and others, when I'm stymied. Not quite there.

[Raymond]

Do whatever you can explain.

I know anything I do, I can explain to a coach or my supervisors.

I don't worry about all these debates.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While the intent is certainly different, wouldn't you say that both of these are travel violations (based on your post above)?

Why would they be the same when one is literally done on purpose and the other is not? That is like saying any touching or tapping of the ball would be the same as a dribble even though you did not have control of the ball?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Do whatever you can explain.

My misunderstood rules list shouldn't have rules listed that I misunderstand.

The situation will remain deleted (for now).

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm basing this on two old adages, one can always pick up a fumble, and one has to be holding the ball to travel.

[BryanV21]

Dammit. That play is going to happen on Friday and I'm going to let it go, and I won't know if I did the right thing or not.

Oh well, it'll fit in with the other bad calls I make throughout the night.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would they be the same when one is literally done on purpose and the other is not?

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.

In my opinion, an airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.



In my opinion, a airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

This is what I'm calling unless there's clear information against it.

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