The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So it doesn't matter if the ball is dropped/fumbled and the ball hits the floor BEFORE the shooter touches the ball again? It would still be a traveling violation?

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If you deem the action is the start of a dribble, touching the ball does not matter if the pivot foot has been lifted. And if you jump in the air with both feet, you cannot be doing that without the pivot foot being lifted now can you?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So it doesn't matter if the ball is dropped/fumbled and the ball hits the floor BEFORE the shooter touches the ball again? It would still be a traveling violation?

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you deem the action is the start of a dribble, touching the ball does not matter if the pivot foot has been lifted. And if you jump in the air with both feet, you cannot be doing that without the pivot foot being lifted now can you?



Peace

And if the fumble/drop is NOT deemed as the start of a dribble, but I an actual fumble?

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[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

So if it's not a purposeful drop/fumble then no violation has occurred? I was assuming it was unintentional.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

And if the fumble/drop is NOT deemed as the start of a dribble, but I an actual fumble?

A fumble by definition is an accidental loss of the ball. You cannot "fumble" the ball on purpose. And you can always recover a fumble.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A fumble by definition is an accidental loss of the ball. You cannot "fumble" the ball on purpose. And you can always recover a fumble.



Peace

If you can always recover a fumble, then why is the airborne shooter play being discussed in question?

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If you can always recover a fumble, then why is the airborne shooter play being discussed in question?

I cannot explain why some here like to nitpick everything, but a fumble is clearly by definition an accidental loss of the ball and a dribble is actually throwing, batting or pushing the ball to the floor. So one is unintentional and the other is very intentional. And since the rule says that you cannot start a dribble while moving your pivot foot, I think some are trying to suggest the only way you can call that is if you touch the ball again when that is not how the rule reads.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot explain why some here like to nitpick everything, but a fumble is clearly by definition an accidental loss of the ball and a dribble is actually throwing, batting or pushing the ball to the floor. So one is unintentional and the other is very intentional. And since the rule says that you cannot start a dribble while moving your pivot foot, I think some are trying to suggest the only way you can call that is if you touch the ball again when that is not how the rule reads.



Peace

By definition the play seems legal, but I'm so confused now because it sounds like the book says that play is illegal.

I just want to know what to call, because Murphy's Law says that will happen in my game Friday night.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

By definition the play seems legal, but I'm so confused now because it sounds like the book says that play is illegal.

Please note that my misunderstood rules list is my list, in my words, but it is based on NFHS rules and interruptions.

Here's my most updated version the paragraph in question.

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Note that I've once again deleted the "fumble scenario". If I can't explain something to a coach, it's not going to be on my list.

Note: In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up, but not dribbled agian.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A fumble by definition is an accidental loss of the ball. You cannot "fumble" the ball on purpose. And you can always recover a fumble.

Well stated. Agree. One can always fumble, dribble, and fumble, but can't dribble, fumble, and dribble (if ball picked up from fumble with both hands).

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Please note that my misunderstood rules list in my list, in my words, but it is based n NFHS rules and interruptions.



Here's my most updated version the paragraph in question. If I can't explain something to a coach, it's not on my list.



The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

I'm missing where this applies to a shooter fumbling a shot attempt, and whether that is traveling or not.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... some are trying to suggest the only way you can call that is if you touch the ball again when that is not how the rule reads.

I'm the "some", and JRutledge is correct, that's how the rule reads.

But since I can't read minds, in a real game, I'm waiting until the airborne player (who purposely drops the ball) touches the ball after it hits the floor. This is the only way I can know with 100% certainty that it wasn't an intended (legal) bounce pass, no such thing as a "self pass".

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I'm missing where this applies to a shooter fumbling a shot attempt, and whether that is traveling or not.

I've once again deleted the "fumble scenario". If I can't explain something to a coach, it's not going to be on my list.

In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up, but not dribbled again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you deem the action is the start of a dribble, touching the ball does not matter if the pivot foot has been lifted.

Agree.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've once again deleted the "fumble scenario".

... Because we can't get 100% agreement on this situation. See Camron Rust's post #10.

Here's what I deleted:

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation because the airborne shooter didn't shoot or pass before landing and picking up the ball.

This may be true, or it may not be true, so it's no longer on the list.