The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules ...

[Raymond]

The significance of being able to recover a fumbled ball is that it's not considered a dribble, therefore you wouldn't be committing an illegal dribble.

You can however fumble ball and commit a travel if you jump in the air, fumble the ball, and then retrieve the ball.

There is a difference between jumping in the air and purposely dropping the ball and jumping in the air and fumbling the ball.

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[BillyMac]

Thanks for your input Raymond. It's greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

The significance of being able to recover a fumbled ball is that it's not considered a dribble, therefore you wouldn't be committing an illegal dribble. You can however fumble ball and commit a travel if you jump in the air, fumble the ball, and then retrieve the ball.

Makes sense. But doesn't one have to be holding a ball at the same time one illegally moves a pivot foot to travel?

Originally Posted by Raymond

There is a difference between jumping in the air and purposely dropping the ball and jumping in the air and fumbling the ball.

While the intent is certainly different, wouldn't you say that both of these are travel violations (based on your post above)?

Still waiting for that ah-ha moment that I almost always get from Raymond, and others, when I'm stymied. Not quite there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While the intent is certainly different, wouldn't you say that both of these are travel violations (based on your post above)?

Why would they be the same when one is literally done on purpose and the other is not? That is like saying any touching or tapping of the ball would be the same as a dribble even though you did not have control of the ball?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would they be the same when one is literally done on purpose and the other is not?

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.

In my opinion, an airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.



In my opinion, a airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

This is what I'm calling unless there's clear information against it.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In my opinion, a airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

This is what I'm calling unless there's clear information against it.

Don't underestimate the rules knowledge and experience of Raymond and Camron Rust. It would be a big mistake to ignore either of them.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Don't underestimate the rules knowledge and experience of Raymond and Camron Rust.

It has nothing to do with that, it goes to the fact I can't point to a case play or rule to PROVE it to a coach.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.

In my opinion, a airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

My contention is that you do not have to pick up this part at all. If you have not started a dribble, this is illegal the minute you release the ball. If a player did a split foot travel we would not wait until they picked up the ball again.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My contention is that you do not have to pick up this part at all. If you have not started a dribble, this is illegal the minute you release the ball.

By a literal interpretation of the rule, JRutledge is 100% correct. If one deems it to be the start of a dribble, it is a dribble. If one deems it to be the start of a bounce pass, it is a pass.

However, I believe that both JRutledge and I are on the same page in terms of the illegality of dropping the ball intentionally, and the legality of unintentionally fumbling the ball and recovering it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If a player did a split foot travel we would not wait until they picked up the ball again.

Note: Took me some time to figure out what a split foot travel is, as we have never used that term here in my little corner of Connecticut.

Again, JRutledge is 100% correct in his literal interpretation of the rule. By the time the play registers in my mind and I sound my whistle the ball has usually bounced off the floor and back into the player's hand. Could it have been the start of a bounce pass, sure, I guess, but JRutledge is right in his contention that experienced officials have enough good judgment to differentiate between the start of a bounce pass and the start of a dribble. Context is everything. If I'm unsure, I can wait a second and be sure.