Exam Question: Through The Basket From Below ...

[BillyMac]

#67: During rebounding action, B-5 bats the ball and the ball enters the basket from below and rises above the ring while inside the net. The ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket. The official rules a violation on B-5. Is the official correct?

9-4: A player must not cause (the ball) to enter and pass through the basket from below.

1-10-1: Each basket must consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

9.4 Situation: At A’s basket, the ball enters the net from below and passes through the basket: (a) The officials do not know whether a player of Team A or Team B was responsible; (b) the ball entered the basket after A1’s pass was deflected by B1; or (c) A1 and B1 touched the ball simultaneously before it entered the basket. Ruling:*The ball becomes dead when it enters from below and passes through. In (a) and (c), a throw-in will follow by the team entitled to it under the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), it is A’s ball for a throw-in, as B1 caused the violation.

I say the official was not correct. For this to be a violation, the ball must pass through the basket, the basket is defined as both the the ring and the net, and the question states that the ball is still inside the net, not through the net.

Can anybody please confirm, or deny, my answer.

Not looking to cheat, I've already done my due diligence.

[bob jenkins]

I agree with your answer.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with your answer.

Thanks.

I think I've had this play once, or twice, in forty years.

I honestly don't remember if I got it (ball still in the upside down net, or completely through) right, or not, but I will definitely get it right the next time it happens (if it happens again).

[Nevadaref]

An augment can definitely be made that this is a violation. Notice that the definition of the basket specifies that the net must be suspended from beneath the ring. That is the proper position for the net on a legal basket.
Since the ball has now passed completely through the space in which the net is specified to be on a legal basket and through the ring, it can be considered to have passed through a legal basket. It does not need to pass through the net as it is stretched above the level of the ring because that is not its legal position.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

An augment can definitely be made that this is a violation. Notice that the definition of the basket specifies that the net must be suspended from beneath the ring. That is the proper position for the net on a legal basket.
Since the ball has now passed completely through the space in which the net is specified to be on a legal basket and through the ring, it can be considered to have passed through a legal basket. It does not need to pass through the net as it is stretched above the level of the ring because that is not its legal position.

If that is the case, the basket is illegal most almost every shot as it often flips partially up as the ball is going in and through....the point being, I'm not sure it is relevant.

[Scrapper1]

If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

In other words, it's a violation.

[BillyMac]

Nevadaref, Camron Rust, and Scrapper1. Thanks for your recent posts that tell me that this question was not as "cut and dry" as it appeared to be, the reason for my original post to confirm my answer.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

I don't know the answer for the OP, but this logic is definitely incorrect.

The ball entered the basket from below. It went above the ring, but remained in the basket (still in the net) until it fell back through the bottom. It never entered the basket from above.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Altor

I don't know the answer for the OP, but this logic is definitely incorrect.

The ball entered the basket from below. It went above the ring, but remained in the basket (still in the net) until it fell back through the bottom. It never entered the basket from above.

Even if we do consider the ball to have entered the basket from above after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Even if we do consider the ball to have entered the basket from above after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

What?? Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

I guess I can see the point about not entering the basket from above (since it's already in the net when it gets above the ring), but it obviously passes through the ring and net on the way down.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What?? Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

Gravity?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

In other words, it's a violation.

No, it didn't enter the basket from above...it entered it from below. If it had exited the basket and then dropped by down into the basket, you would have a point, but that isn't what was described in the OP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What?? Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

I guess I can see the point about not entering the basket from above (since it's already in the net when it gets above the ring), but it obviously passes through the ring and net on the way down.

It may pass through the ring on the way down, but you can't say it passed through the net. I came back out of the net on the same side it went in.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No, it didn't enter the basket from above...it entered it from below. If it had exited the basket and then dropped by down into the basket, you would have a point, but that isn't what was described in the OP.

And if it exited the basket above the ring and then dropped back down through, the entire OP is moot since then it's clearly a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

#67: During rebounding action, B-5 bats the ball and the ball enters the basket from below and rises above the ring while inside the net. The ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket. The official rules a violation on B-5. Is the official correct?

9-4: A player must not cause (the ball) to enter and pass through the basket from below.

1-10-1: Each basket must consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

9.4 Situation: At A’s basket, the ball enters the net from below and passes through the basket: (a) The officials do not know whether a player of Team A or Team B was responsible; (b) the ball entered the basket after A1’s pass was deflected by B1; or (c) A1 and B1 touched the ball simultaneously before it entered the basket. Ruling: The ball becomes dead when it enters from below and passes through. In (a) and (c), a throw-in will follow by the team entitled to it under the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), it is A’s ball for a throw-in, as B1 caused the violation.

IAABO says that the official is correct and uses 9-4 as the citation. I guess that "through" doesn't have to mean all the way through, inside the net must also mean through.

When I drive through a tunnel, I guess that I can still be inside the tunnel while driving through the tunnel.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevadaref, Camron Rust, and Scrapper1. Thanks for your recent posts that tell me that this question was not as "cut and dry" as it appeared to be, the reason for my original post to confirm my answer.

West Rock Tunnel, Route 15, Woodbridge, CT