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-   -   Exam Question: Through The Basket From Below ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105545-exam-question-through-basket-below.html)

BillyMac Sat Oct 30, 2021 01:32pm

Exam Question: Through The Basket From Below ...
 
#67: During rebounding action, B-5 bats the ball and the ball enters the basket from below and rises above the ring while inside the net. The ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket. The official rules a violation on B-5. Is the official correct?

9-4: A player must not cause (the ball) to enter and pass through the basket from below.

1-10-1: Each basket must consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

9.4 Situation: At A’s basket, the ball enters the net from below and passes through the basket: (a) The officials do not know whether a player of Team A or Team B was responsible; (b) the ball entered the basket after A1’s pass was deflected by B1; or (c) A1 and B1 touched the ball simultaneously before it entered the basket. Ruling:*The ball becomes dead when it enters from below and passes through. In (a) and (c), a throw-in will follow by the team entitled to it under the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), it is A’s ball for a throw-in, as B1 caused the violation.


I say the official was not correct. For this to be a violation, the ball must pass through the basket, the basket is defined as both the the ring and the net, and the question states that the ball is still inside the net, not through the net.

Can anybody please confirm, or deny, my answer.

Not looking to cheat, I've already done my due diligence.

bob jenkins Sat Oct 30, 2021 02:16pm

I agree with your answer.

BillyMac Sun Oct 31, 2021 09:48am

Always Listen To bob ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1045345)
I agree with your answer.

Thanks.

I think I've had this play once, or twice, in forty years.

I honestly don't remember if I got it (ball still in the upside down net, or completely through) right, or not, but I will definitely get it right the next time it happens (if it happens again).

Nevadaref Sun Oct 31, 2021 06:44pm

An augment can definitely be made that this is a violation. Notice that the definition of the basket specifies that the net must be suspended from beneath the ring. That is the proper position for the net on a legal basket.
Since the ball has now passed completely through the space in which the net is specified to be on a legal basket and through the ring, it can be considered to have passed through a legal basket. It does not need to pass through the net as it is stretched above the level of the ring because that is not its legal position.

Camron Rust Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1045359)
An augment can definitely be made that this is a violation. Notice that the definition of the basket specifies that the net must be suspended from beneath the ring. That is the proper position for the net on a legal basket.
Since the ball has now passed completely through the space in which the net is specified to be on a legal basket and through the ring, it can be considered to have passed through a legal basket. It does not need to pass through the net as it is stretched above the level of the ring because that is not its legal position.

If that is the case, the basket is illegal most almost every shot as it often flips partially up as the ball is going in and through....the point being, I'm not sure it is relevant.

Scrapper1 Mon Nov 01, 2021 07:32am

If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

In other words, it's a violation.

BillyMac Mon Nov 01, 2021 08:53am

Cut And Dry ...
 
Nevadaref, Camron Rust, and Scrapper1. Thanks for your recent posts that tell me that this question was not as "cut and dry" as it appeared to be, the reason for my original post to confirm my answer.

Altor Mon Nov 01, 2021 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1045361)
If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

I don't know the answer for the OP, but this logic is definitely incorrect.

The ball entered the basket from below. It went above the ring, but remained in the basket (still in the net) until it fell back through the bottom. It never entered the basket from above.

Nevadaref Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1045363)
I don't know the answer for the OP, but this logic is definitely incorrect.

The ball entered the basket from below. It went above the ring, but remained in the basket (still in the net) until it fell back through the bottom. It never entered the basket from above.

Even if we do consider the ball to have entered the basket from above after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

Scrapper1 Mon Nov 01, 2021 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1045364)
Even if we do consider the ball to have entered the basket from above after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

What?? :confused: Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

I guess I can see the point about not entering the basket from above (since it's already in the net when it gets above the ring), but it obviously passes through the ring and net on the way down.

BillyMac Mon Nov 01, 2021 01:27pm

Sir Isaac Newton ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1045344)
... ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1045364)
... after rising above the level of the ring, it does not pass through the net or remain within it as required by rule for a goal to be scored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1045365)
What?? Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

Gravity?

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Camron Rust Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1045361)
If the original situation is not a violation, then you have to score a goal. It's a live ball that has entered or remained in the basket from above. 2 points.

In other words, it's a violation.

No, it didn't enter the basket from above...it entered it from below. If it had exited the basket and then dropped by down into the basket, you would have a point, but that isn't what was described in the OP.

Camron Rust Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1045365)
What?? :confused: Of course it does. When it comes back down, passes through the ring and out of the bottom of the net.

I guess I can see the point about not entering the basket from above (since it's already in the net when it gets above the ring), but it obviously passes through the ring and net on the way down.

It may pass through the ring on the way down, but you can't say it passed through the net. I came back out of the net on the same side it went in.

Altor Tue Nov 02, 2021 07:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1045370)
No, it didn't enter the basket from above...it entered it from below. If it had exited the basket and then dropped by down into the basket, you would have a point, but that isn't what was described in the OP.

And if it exited the basket above the ring and then dropped back down through, the entire OP is moot since then it's clearly a violation.

BillyMac Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:44pm

Through The Basket From Below IAABO Exam Answer ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1045344)
#67: During rebounding action, B-5 bats the ball and the ball enters the basket from below and rises above the ring while inside the net. The ball never comes out of the net and then falls back through the basket. The official rules a violation on B-5. Is the official correct?

9-4: A player must not cause (the ball) to enter and pass through the basket from below.

1-10-1: Each basket must consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

9.4 Situation: At A’s basket, the ball enters the net from below and passes through the basket: (a) The officials do not know whether a player of Team A or Team B was responsible; (b) the ball entered the basket after A1’s pass was deflected by B1; or (c) A1 and B1 touched the ball simultaneously before it entered the basket. Ruling: The ball becomes dead when it enters from below and passes through. In (a) and (c), a throw-in will follow by the team entitled to it under the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), it is A’s ball for a throw-in, as B1 caused the violation.

IAABO says that the official is correct and uses 9-4 as the citation. I guess that "through" doesn't have to mean all the way through, inside the net must also mean through.

When I drive through a tunnel, I guess that I can still be inside the tunnel while driving through the tunnel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1045362)
Nevadaref, Camron Rust, and Scrapper1. Thanks for your recent posts that tell me that this question was not as "cut and dry" as it appeared to be, the reason for my original post to confirm my answer.

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