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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 06, 2021, 11:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I will note that the IAABO ruling cites the incorrect moment at which to judge if the act of shooting had begun. The correct point is not when the official signals, but rather when the illegal contact occurs.
I know this play is NFHS, but for completeness sake -- in NCAAW, the time of the foul is when the whistle sounds.

I do agree on trying to determine if the contact caused a disadvantage, and /or deciding that the disadvantage happened a few feet after the initial contact
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Old Mon Sep 06, 2021, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
... in NCAAW, the time of the foul is when the whistle sounds.
Always to listen to bob, especially in dealing with NCAA-W.

However.

Even if the official decides to have a patient whistle and to see the entire play unfold? What if the official spits out his whistle, or forgets to put the whistle in his mouth (happened to me at least once after talking to a polite coach during a live ball), or sneezes, or was breathing in at the time of the foul?

I wish that I got a dollar every time that I said to coaches in high school games over forty years, "Yes, it was a late whistle coach, but it was the correct call".

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Sep 06, 2021 at 05:24pm.
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Old Mon Sep 06, 2021, 04:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Always to listen to bob, especially in dealing with NCAA-W.

However.

Even if the official decides to have a patient whistle and to see the entire play unfold? What if the official spits out his whistle, or forgets to put the whistle in his mouth (happened tom me at least once after talking to a polite coach during a live ball), or sneezes, or was breathing in at the time of the foul?
I very much dislike the NCAA-W (and I think M, too) interpretation here. It leads to what I think are many undesirable results.

Some examples...B4 and A4, fighting for rebounding position, commit a foul. The shot is successful and falls through the basket. Then the official's whistle is sounded. The whistle was patient because they were just watching the play and deciding if it needed to be called and, it was too rough, so they call it. Now, by rule, the ball is dead when the try was successful. Since the foul is deemed to have occurred at the time of the whistle, this becomes a dead ball contact foul.

A2 sets a screen for A1 who is receiving a pass. B2 pushes through the screen before the pass reaches A1. A1 then catches the ball and shoots it. The whistle is sounded only once A1 has shot the ball. This means A1's shot counts and A2 gets the benefit of the foul as well. Then, on the next trip down, the situations are reversed but the calling official is a little quicker with the whistle and sounds it prior to the act of shooting....dead ball, no shot. You have the exact same play with two outcomes where the difference is not based on what the players did but on how quickly an official blew the whistle.
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Old Mon Sep 06, 2021, 05:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Some examples...B4 and A4, fighting for rebounding position, commit a foul. The shot is successful and falls through the basket. Then the official's whistle is sounded. The whistle was patient because they were just watching the play and deciding if it needed to be called and, it was too rough, so they call it. Now, by rule, the ball is dead when the try was successful. Since the foul is deemed to have occurred at the time of the whistle, this becomes a dead ball contact foul.
Fouls during this period are "normal" personal fouls in NCAAW. Adjudicate as if the ball were live.
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Old Tue Sep 07, 2021, 02:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Fouls during this period are "normal" personal fouls in NCAAW. Adjudicate as if the ball were live.
Ok, for how long are they "normal" fouls?

What about the 2nd example? Was my conclusion correct? That you get a different ruling on exactly the same play based on how quickly the official blows the whistle?
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Old Tue Sep 07, 2021, 06:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Ok, for how long are they "normal" fouls?

What about the 2nd example? Was my conclusion correct? That you get a different ruling on exactly the same play based on how quickly the official blows the whistle?
Section 10. Personal Fouls
Art. 1. A personal foul is a player's illegal contact with an opponent during
a live ball and during the dead-ball period immediately following a successful
goal. (Note: Illegal contact that occurs before the ball becomes live at the start of the
game or after the ball has become dead following the end of any quarter or overtime
shall be either an intentional or disqualifying foul.)

Yes -- I think your second example is correct.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Tue Sep 07, 2021 at 06:57am.
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