Fun With The Division Line ...

[BillyMac]

JRutledge and Raymond brought up some good points in their posts, so I looked at the video again.

I am certain the the ball never touched the frontcourt, and thus never achieved frontcourt status as it was dribbled. The ball only achieved frontcourt status when dribbler Red #40 picked up his dribble with both hands after the official sounded her whistle for the backcourt violation.

Of course, the official in the video didn't have the luxury of second slow motion look.

The only question that I have is how did the ball end up going "backward", did Red #40 dribble it "backward", or did the ball deflect off of Red #40's body and deflect "backward"?

Dribble "backward" is easy, legal, no backcourt violation.

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's possible the ball hit A1's backside after he was completely in the front court, then went into the back court.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

..knocked backwards.

If the ball did deflect off of Red #40's body and deflect "backward" as an interrupted dribble, does that move "cancel" the "three points" rule, giving the interrupted dribbler "full" frontcourt status (like if the ball had been passed to him and he touched but muffed catching the pass while he was standing in the frontcourt), and thus, a backcourt violation after the ball bounced in the backcourt and Red #40 then touched the ball with his next dribble?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Could there have been an interrupted dribble here, and would that affect the adjudication?

Nice video. We don't get great look, but it's still a nice video for rule discussion.

[Nevadaref]

An interrupted dribble is still a dribble, but it is unclear which dribbling rules apply during this time.
For example, may the dribbler step on the sideline during an interrupted dribble without violating? Most would answer, yes.
Can the dribbler touch the ball with both hands simultaneously in an attempt to regain control and then continue to dribble? Most would answer, no.
Does the three points rule still apply? I don’t know.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... may the dribbler step on the sideline during an interrupted dribble without violating? Most would answer, yes.

All should answer yes.

4-15-6-D: During an interrupted dribble: Out-of-bounds violation does not apply on the player involved in the interrupted dribble.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Can the dribbler touch the ball with both hands simultaneously in an attempt to regain control and then continue to dribble? Most would answer, no.

All should answer no.

4.15.4 SITUATION D: While dribbling: (c) the ball hits A1’s foot and bounces away but A1 is able to overtake and pick it up; RULING: In (c), the dribble ended when A1 caught the ball; Even though the dribble has ended in (c), A1 may recover the ball but may not dribble again. (9-5)

[JRutledge]

If it goes off his leg and the his leg is clearly in the FC, I would think the three points is not a hard-fast rule in that specific situation. That being said I would agree that this is likely not very clear as to the issue of a dribble normally coming from the BC to the FC. I think this would be similar to the ball touching your leg and going out of bounds. Yes it is an interrupted dribble, but the ball had FC status while the player is touching the ball.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... likely not very clear ... it is an interrupted dribble, but the ball had FC status while the player is touching the ball ...

Dribble off hand? Ball is still considered to be in the backcourt (three points). Legal. Play on.

Deflection off leg? Ball is considered to be in the frontcourt (like if the ball had been passed to him and he touched but muffed catching the pass while he was standing in the frontcourt), leading to a backcourt violation?

Not agreeing, but not disagreeing either.

Maybe one of those fuzzy, gray areas that the NFHS hasn't considered in the past zillion years?

Is an interrupted dribble a dribble?

Has the dribble ended?

4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.

None of these five things happened.

I think that this interrupted dribble is still a dribble (it hasn't ended) and that the "three points" rule is still in effect and applies.

Just my opinion, not cast in bronze.

[Nevadaref]

The three-points rule states that the ball must touch the court, not a player, in the frontcourt in order to gain frontcourt status.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is an interrupted dribble a dribble? Has the dribble ended?
4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.
None of these five things happened. I think that this interrupted dribble is still a dribble (it hasn't ended) and that the "three points" rule is still in effect and applies.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The three-points rule states that the ball must touch the court, not a player, in the frontcourt in order to gain frontcourt status.

Agree. After looking at the definition of ending a dribble, I'm convinced that this was a legal play, and not a backcourt violation.

Nice thread.

[Camron Rust]

I believe this is a legal play. The ball was being dribbled from the backcourt and to obtain frontcourt status the ball itself must touch the floor in the frontcourt (along with the feet). The ball never bounced on the floor, thus, the ball was never in the frontcourt. As such, there can't be a backcourt violation.