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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 27, 2021, 09:00am
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Fun With Switching …

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...NivajxNQ%3D%3D

Is this contact properly ruled a player control foul? Does the ruling official use proper site of violation signaling? Does the ruling official get to the foul reporting area? Do the officials switch properly after the foul?

Three choices: This is a player control foul. This is a blocking foul. This is incidental contact and should not have been ruled a foul.

My comment: This is a player control foul. White #11 had legal guarding position and was charged into by ball handler Black #23. Calling official did not use the proper preliminary signal, did not get to the reporting area, and the officials did not switch properly after the foul.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 27, 2021 at 09:38am.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 27, 2021, 09:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My comment: This is a player control foul. White #11 had legal guarding position and was charged into by Black #23. Calling official did not use the proper preliminary signal, did not get to the reporting area, and the officials did not switch properly after the foul.
Yep
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 27, 2021, 10:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
Yep
The only possible issue here is if the state / association uses different mechanics (punch; no long switch)
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Old Thu May 27, 2021, 10:05am
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Force The Switch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... the officials did not switch properly after the foul.
The non-calling old trail "forced the switch" as he was supposed to do, but for some reason the calling official didn't accept the forced switch.

Sometimes officials just get turned around in the heat of the moment.

I like that the old trail, despite being correct, didn't hang around to debate the issue with his partner and just "got out of Dodge". Playing a game of, "I'm here (while pointing), no your'e there (while pointing)", always looks bad, and getting the ball into play smoothly always "trumps" getting the switch correct, especially if it's only once, or twice, a game.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 27, 2021 at 11:40am.
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Old Thu May 27, 2021, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The only possible issue here is if the state / association uses different mechanics (punch; no long switch)
Which is the case in Oregon. This would have been the correct signal and the correct non-switch.
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Old Thu May 27, 2021, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
IAABO Make The Call Video

Does the ruling official use proper site of violation signaling?
What violation? He called a foul.
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Old Thu May 27, 2021, 11:35am
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Hand Slapped ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The only possible issue here is if the state / association uses different mechanics (..., no long switch)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Which is the case in Oregon. This would have been the correct ... non-switch.
We tried no long switches here in Connecticut several years ago.

Our state guideline was no long switch when the ball will stay in the backcourt and when there will be no change in possession.

Best example was a ball handler getting fouled in the backcourt before the bonus was in effect.

Either because many didn't understand the guideline, or because many were lazy, officials didn't switch when they were supposed to, and we often saw no switching during plays when we were supposed to switch, like the play shown in the video (which included a change in possession).

When the IAABO Grand Poobahs observed this in our Connecticut state tournament finals, IAABO International put the kibosh on our short-lived (maybe one year, no more than two years) Connecticut no long switch experiment.

Too bad, I liked the no long switch mechanic (remember it's two person in Connecticut, so a long switch can occasionally be really, really long). It was our own fault, we screwed the pooch.

What does no long switch actually mean in states that use it, like Oregon? Please define. Thanks.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 27, 2021 at 02:39pm.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 28, 2021, 02:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
We tried no long switches here in Connecticut several years ago.

Our state guideline was no long switch when the ball will stay in the backcourt and when there will be no change in possession.

Best example was a ball handler getting fouled in the backcourt before the bonus was in effect.

Either because many didn't understand the guideline, or because many were lazy, officials didn't switch when they were supposed to, and we often saw no switching during plays when we were supposed to switch, like the play shown in the video (which included a change in possession).

When the IAABO Grand Poobahs observed this in our Connecticut state tournament finals, IAABO International put the kibosh on our short-lived (maybe one year, no more than two years) Connecticut no long switch experiment.

Too bad, I liked the no long switch mechanic (remember it's two person in Connecticut, so a long switch can occasionally be really, really long). It was our own fault, we screwed the pooch.

What does no long switch actually mean in states that use it, like Oregon? Please define. Thanks.
The way we're doing it is that when the lead calls an offensive foul, they return to become the trail. Also, when the trail calls a defensive foul in the backcourt, the trail returns.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sat May 29, 2021 at 01:39am.
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Old Fri May 28, 2021, 03:06pm
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Long Switches ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Our state guideline was no long switch when the ball will stay in the backcourt and when there will be no change in possession. Best example was a ball handler getting fouled in the backcourt before the bonus was in effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The way we're going it is that when the lead calls an offensive foul, they return to become the trail. Also, when the trail calls a defensive foul in the backcourt, the trail returns.
Thanks Camron Rust. The second part of the Oregon system (backcourt) sounds like what we were trying to do, and failed to do, in Connecticut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
... when the lead calls an offensive foul, they return to become the trail.
I don't understand what is so "long" about this (offensive foul) switch?

It seems no "longer" than the usual switch when the lead calls a defensive foul?

Keep in mind that my mind always defaults to two person mechanics.

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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri May 28, 2021 at 04:16pm.
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Old Mon May 31, 2021, 06:05pm
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He got RFTO!!!! PC Foul all the way.

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Old Mon May 31, 2021, 06:12pm
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In Illinois, we would call this foul, report the foul in the reporting area and switch with the New Trail and become the New Lead. We only long switch when the lead calls a foul (or the other officials are in the half-court set). And they switch to the table side and the lead only comes off the endline if they are on the endline.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 03, 2021, 12:52pm
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IAABO Survey Says …

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...NivajxNQ%3D%3D

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is a player control foul.

Black #23 receives a pass near the sideline and dribbles into the lane and jumps to try for goal. White #10 obtains a guarding position by placing his torso in the path of the ball handler, with two feet on the floor and facing his opponent. To be considered a legal guarding position, If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor. (4-23-4) Since White #10 obtained this position before Black #23 jumped to try for goal, it is considered a legal guarding position, and a player control foul was correctly ruled on this play. The Lead official does not have the best angle on the play, but it was the angle that was available in this quick transition play. Officials should use proper foul procedures and get to the proper reporting area when communicating fouls. In this play, the ruling official should continue holding the foul signal and step toward the player who committed the foul. Stop and verbalize the color and number of the player who committed the foul. Verbalize the type of foul and give the appropriate signal. Since it is a player control foul, add the directional signal toward the basket of the team receiving the ball. Then verbalize the type of foul and give the appropriate signal. If player control, add the directional signal toward the basket of the team receiving the ball. The ruling official should end the sequence by indicating the throw-in spot before hustling to the table to report the foul. (IAABO manual p. 68) Officials should report fouls to the official scorer from the approved reporting area. (IAABO manual p. 72)


Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a player control foul 99% (including me). This is a blocking foul 1%. This is incidental contact and should not have been ruled a foul 1%.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 03, 2021, 12:57pm
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Switching ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Do the officials switch properly after the foul?
Asked, but no comment on the switch?
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