Fun With A Pass And Crash …

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

However, even if Blue #10 was still airborne, my opinion is that White #1 obtained and maintained legal guarding position before Blue #10 became airborne, so to me, it doesn't matter if Blue #10 was still airborne at contact....

So a defender can move any way he wants to AFTER A1 becomes airborne as long as he was legal BEFORE A1 became airborne?

But again, the judgment part of this play is a mouse compared to the elephant of poor mechanics.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... my opinion is that White #1 obtained and maintained legal guarding position before Blue #10 became airborne ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

So a defender can move any way he wants to after A1 becomes airborne as long as he was legal before A1 became airborne?

Great point, that I believed that I had already answered, but without specifics. By maintaining legal guard position I meant that the defender didn't move toward the airborne ball handler.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... the judgment part of this play is a mouse compared to the elephant of poor mechanics.

I appreciate your comments regarding the mechanics of the play.

Originally Posted by Raymond

I do know that was terrible court coverage. Lead needed to pinch the paint and rotate. Center takes himself out of the play

With only two real three person games in forty years under my black belt, I wasn't about to offer an opinion on the mechanics as requested by IAABO.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Great point, that I believed that I had already answered, but without specifics. By maintaining legal guard position I meant that the defender didn't move toward the airborne ball handler.

....

Words matter

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Words matter

Agree. Yes they do. I thought that "obtained and maintained" covered it.

While not incorrect, it was, perhaps, too general a statement, one that needed further explanation, and I was happy to oblige for the greater good of the cause.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Yes they do. I thought that "obtained and maintained" covered it.

While not incorrect, it was, perhaps, too general a statement, one that needed further explanation, and I was happy to oblige for the greater good of the cause.

You used "obtained and maintained" specifically in regards to what happened before A1 went airborne and then used words like "it doesn't matter" in regards to what happens before the contact.


"However, even if Blue #10 was still airborne, my opinion is that White #1 obtained and maintained legal guarding position before Blue #10 became airborne, so to me, it doesn't matter if Blue #10 was still airborne at contact...."

Me, if I'm training someone, I say defender "obtained" LGP BEFORE A1 went airborne and MAINTAINED LGP while A1 was airborne and until contact.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I say defender "obtained" LGP before A1 went airborne and maintained LGP while A1 was airborne and until contact.

And you would be saying it correctly.

My initial answer was unclear.

While I knew what I meant, I didn't write what I meant.

Haste makes waste.

Thanks for the correction/clarification, for me, and for the greater good of the Forum cause.

[BillyMac]

Disclaimer: Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...O0M%2F5w%3D%3D

IAABO Play Commentary

Correct Answer: This is a Charge.

Blue #10 drives into the lane and jumps to pass the ball to a teammate in the lane. The defender obtains a legal guarding position (2 feet on the floor, facing the opponent) before Blue #10 became airborne. (4-23-5d) Since the defender obtained a legal guarding position, Blue #10 is responsible for the contact. In NFHS rules, this would be a team control foul. (4-19-7)

A high percentage of respondents ruled this play to be a player control foul. A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter. (4-19-6) Even though the administration of the penalties is the same as the team control foul, it is not accurate to refer to this as a player control foul. Blue #10 no longer had control of the ball once he released the ball on the pass. (4-12-1, 4-12-2b) Had Blue #10 released the ball on a try for goal instead of a pass and then charged, a player control foul would have been committed by rule.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a Charge 41% (including me). This is Player Control foul 39%. This is incidental contact (NCC - No Call Correct) 13%. This is a Blocking foul 5%. This is a Flop 2%.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

So a defender can move any way he wants to AFTER A1 becomes airborne as long as he was legal BEFORE A1 became airborne?

But again, the judgment part of this play is a mouse compared to the elephant of poor mechanics.

Not any way, but several ways.

Nothing in the rules says that the defender has to be stationary, even for an airborne opponent. The rules only require that the defender be in the path. If the defender was in the path when A1 became airborne, any subsequent lateral movement or movement backwards doesn't change that. That is just a position adjustment.

There is no change in the ruling if the defender moves from a position that would have lead to contact 3" left of the center of his/her torso to a position with contact 3" right of the center of his/her torso. If the defender was in position to take the charge before the opponent jump, small movements don't usually change that.

The defender can't, however, move toward the opponent into contact as that negates LGP.