Errant Pass

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... we're not going to debate every minuscule possible detail aspect to NBA rules enforcement

We often do this for high school rules, and occasionally for college rules, why not rarely for NBA rules? Because few if any Forum members officiate professional level games? We do have a few members with some knowledge of NBA rules (maybe so cal lurker, plus a Forum member who's two sons officiate at the professional level).

The concept of (especially high school) "self passes" pops up occasionally here on the Forum. Often answered by comments like, "No such thing by NFHS definition" (citing 4-31: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player), often ending the discussion so we often never get to study the legality of something that doesn't even truly exist according to the NFHS.

Apparently the NBA does broach the concept of self passes (according to so cal lurker). That why I wanted to extrapolate to NBA rules involving self passes to see what's going on two gigantic levels above my pay grade. How does the NBA "handle" self-passes? What's the violation? Travel? Illegal dribble? Self-pass? Something else? Why do they broach the term while the NFHS denies its existence?

Also, I like the term self pass, it's easily understandable, even if it doesn't exist according NFHS rules. Certainly no harm in using self pass as a generic term to describe a certain act, or situation? Right?

[Raymond]

My high school commissioner is an NBA Finals referee. Our lead on-court trainer is an NBA referee. The two referees whom you referenced above as the children of a forum member came up through my high school board. I referee every summer using NBA rules in a Pro-Am for the aforementioned trainer of my high school board, often side-by-side with G-League and NBA referees.

I am familiar enough with how NBA referees operate.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

My high school commissioner is an NBA Finals referee. Our lead on-court trainer is an NBA referee. The two referees whom you referenced above as the children of a forum member came up through my high school board. I referee every summer using NBA rules in a Pro-Am for the aforementioned trainer of my high school board, often side-by-side with G-League and NBA referees. I am familiar enough with how NBA referees operate.

Great, a perfect source for NBA citations on the Forum

That being said, how does the NBA define a self-pass? Are there any NBA interpretations regarding such? What's the violation? Travel? Illegal dribble? Self-pass? Something else? Also, a general question, does the NBA have an "intent and purpose" clause in its rulebook, and is it similar to the NFHS clause?

Thank you in advance.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Great, a perfect source for NBA citations on the Forum

That being said, how does the NBA define a self-pass? Are there any NBA interpretations regarding such? What's the violation? Travel? Illegal dribble? Self-pass? Something else? Also, a general question, does the NBA have an "intent and purpose" clause in its rulebook, and is it similar to the NFHS clause?

Thank you in advance.

When I'm refereeing the Pro-Am, I'll know when A1 throws a pass intended for a teammate and call a violation if A1 retrieves the pass. I don't need to know the verbiage in the rule book.

https://videorulebook.nba.com/

https://official.nba.com/rulebook/

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[Nevadaref]

For the situation in the OP, there is an NFHS play ruling in which B1 grabs a rebound, pivots, and attempts an outlet pass to a teammate who runs away without knowing that the pass was thrown his way. B1 runs over and collects the ball after it has bounced on the court. The ruling is that this is a legal play and that the action constitutes a dribble by B1.

[Valley Man]

NEVADAREF ... now that is what I am after .. which year is the case play? THANKS

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For the situation in the OP, there is an NFHS play ruling in which B1 grabs a rebound, pivots, and attempts an outlet pass to a teammate who runs away without knowing that the pass was thrown his way. B1 runs over and collects the ball after it has bounced on the court. The ruling is that this is a legal play and that the action constitutes a dribble by B1.

2003-04 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
Situation 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Lifting the pivot foot before releasing the ball is legal for a pass or a try (or to do nothing like standing like a flamingo), but not legal to start a dribble, which would result in a traveling violation.

4.44.3 SITUATION B: A1 receives a pass and establishes the right foot as the pivot. While faking a pass or try, A1 lifts the pivot foot and stands on the left foot alone while undecided as to what to do. Has A1 traveled? RULING: No. Traveling would occur only if A1 begins a dribble or returns the pivot foot to the floor. While in this position A1 may pass, try for goal or request a time-out.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Pro-Am ... A1 throws a pass intended for a teammate ... A1 retrieves the pass ...violation ...https://official.nba.com/rulebook/

Thanks Raymond.

NBA Section XIII—Traveling
A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.

So this below would be illegal by NBA rules. Interesting.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2003-04 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
Situation 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

Seems odd to me to see a rulebbok without the slashed pronoun his/her.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... there is a "common sense, know it when you see it ... I don't need to know the verbiage in the rule book.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... does the NBA have an "intent and purpose" clause in its rulebook, and is it similar to the NFHS clause?

Guides For Administration And Application Of The NBA Rules

Each official should have a definite and clear conception of their overall responsibilities. It is essential for them to know, understand and implement the rules as intended. If all officials possess the same conception there will be a guaranteed uniformity in the administration of all contests.

The restrictions placed upon the player by the rules are intended to create a balance of play, equal opportunity for the defense and the offense, provide reasonable safety and protection for all players and emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of player or team.

The purpose of penalties is to compensate a player who has been placed at a disadvantage through an illegal act of an opponent and to restrain players from committing acts which, if ignored, might lead to roughness even though they do not affect the immediate play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Guides For Administration And Application Of The NBA Rules

Each official should have a definite and clear conception of their overall responsibilities. It is essential for them to know, understand and implement the rules as intended. If all officials possess the same conception there will be a guaranteed uniformity in the administration of all contests.

The restrictions placed upon the player by the rules are intended to create a balance of play, equal opportunity for the defense and the offense, provide reasonable safety and protection for all players and emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of player or team.

The purpose of penalties is to compensate a player who has been placed at a disadvantage through an illegal act of an opponent and to restrain players from committing acts which, if ignored, might lead to roughness even though they do not affect the immediate play.

One thing to remember about NBA officials that does not apply to high school nor college officials.

All NBA officials come through an NBA developmental program where they are taught the same philosophies and principles.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

All NBA officials come through an NBA developmental program where they are taught the same philosophies and principles.

Similar to what IAABO International strives to accomplish with their various educational materials, study guides, videos, newsletters, seminars, etc.

Unfortunately, these consistent IAABO philosophies and principles often get diluted as they trickle down through the state and local levels.

A local IAABO board is only as good as it's most recent interpreter (trainer).

The only live professional basketball I'm exposed to is the WNBA Connecticut Sun.

When I watch these games I'm always impressed by the officials, their confidence, their skill, and their consistency, as if they're all made from the same mold.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

The only live professional basketball I'm exposed to is the WNBA Connecticut Sun.

When I watch these games I'm always impressed by the officials, their confidence, their skill, and their consistency, as if they're all made from the same mold.

Yep, G-League, WNBA, and NBA all fall under the same developmental umbrella. You probably have seen our esteemed forum member's sons officiate a Sun's game at some point.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

G-League, WNBA, and NBA all fall under the same developmental umbrella. You probably have seen our esteemed forum member's sons officiate a Sun's game at some point.

He keeps me informed when his kids are in Connecticut, or are on television.

Our families have a lot in common.

Esteemed? Maybe? Sure, if you say so.