Family Argument: ...and one!?

[cmcramer]

Forgive my amateur terminology...here goes:

A1 begins a try for a basket.
B1 slaps his arm
Ref whistles the obvious Foul
A1 continues his customary upward shooting motion, such that if the Try was successful, it would count for an “and one” situation.
B2 Then grabs A1 arm, preventing completion of the Try.

What is proper call, if any, on B2?

Thanks for your help!

[BryanV21]

Nothing, as the play is dead at the time the whistle blows for the first foul, unless the contact by B2 is deemed to be flagrant or unsportsmanlike resulting in a technical foul.

Just to be thorough, the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

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[cmcramer]

So coaches should instruct their defenders to foul, intentionally foul, in this situation, because there is no penalty for doing so. Not flagrant, and make it look like a legitimate play, but FOUL! Do not allow shooter to complete a possible 'and one'.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

So coaches should instruct their defenders to foul, intentionally foul, in this situation, because there is no penalty for doing so. Not flagrant, and make it look like a legitimate play, but FOUL! Do not allow shooter to complete a possible 'and one'.

If it's deemed unsportsmanlike, meaning it's not a basketball play, then a tech can be called.

Just like with fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock... Just don't make it obvious.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

A1 begins a try for a basket. B1 slaps his arm. Ref whistles the obvious Foul. A1 continues his customary upward shooting motion, such that if the Try was successful, it would count for an “and one” situation. B2 Then grabs A1 arm, preventing completion of the Try.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

... the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

Agree.

6-7 EXCEPTION C: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: (a foul, other than player-control or team-control) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If it's deemed unsportsmanlike, meaning it's not a basketball play, then a tech can be called.

Maybe I'm confused.

Live ball (continuation) illegal contact a technical foul?

You sure?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe I'm confused.

Live ball (continuation) illegal contact a technical foul?

You sure?

Dammit... No.

I should have kept my mouth shut like I have all season.

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[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

6-7 EXCEPTION C: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: (a foul, other than player-control or team-control) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

Well, this has the makings of a False Multiple Foul. If the foul by B2 is such that it would be assessed, A1 would get 2 free throws for the foul by B1 then 2 free throws for the foul by B2 and the ball would remain alive after the last (fourth) free throw.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Dammit... No. I should have kept my mouth shut like I have all season.

Hey, you got the continuation part correct. That's got to count for something. Right?

Let's see if I can find some lengthy 60's song lyrics, a decades-old music video, or an old obscure photo, to make you feel better.

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...Let's see if I can find some lengthy 60's song lyrics, a decades-old music video, or an old obscure photo, to make you feel better.

I see you like living on the edge, BillyMac.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

Well, this has the makings of a False Multiple Foul. If the foul by B2 is such that it would be assessed, A1 would get 2 free throws for the foul by B1 then 2 free throws for the foul by B2 and the ball would remain alive after the last (fourth) free throw.

Have fun explaining that to the coach. If he was the visiting coach the explanation would soon be followed by inviting the coach to take a seat on his cold bus in the parking lot.

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Have fun explaining that to the coach. If he was the visiting coach the explanation would soon be followed by inviting the coach to take a seat on his cold bus in the parking lot.

I did say if the foul was assessed on B2. But it's in the OP. (Any video of this kind of play would be helpful).

So, BillyMac: you, Team A's coach, the custodian, the deputy sheriff, and any spectators in the stands see B2's 'purposeful' foul on A1, who's (presumably) still in the Act of Shooting. What do you call? I see a risk in considering it as merely incidental based on the original description.

[bob jenkins]

In the real world, the second foul is ignored. It NEVER happens that B2's fouls only to prevent A1 from completing the "and 1"

Hypothetically, if it does ... well, the rules are there

[Mike Goodwin]

Similar to, but not quite like, the OP.

4.19.12 SITUATION

B1 fouls airborne A1 who is in the act of shooting. Before airborne shooter A1 returns one foot to the floor, he/she is fouled by B2 who has moved into A1’s landing area. The ball: (a) does; or (b) does not, enter the basket.

This is a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty. In (a), the goal is counted and A1 is awarded one free throw for each foul. In (b), A1 is awarded two free throws for each foul. (10 PENALTY 6, 10 PENALTY 7)

[cmcramer]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In the real world, the second foul is ignored. It NEVER happens that B2's fouls only to prevent A1 from completing the "and 1"

Hypothetically, if it does ... well, the rules are there

Why else would B2 foul A1? It is to prevent A1 from scoring a basket!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

Why else would B2 foul A1? It is to prevent A1 from scoring a basket!

Because he's just playing defense. B2 is NOT going to think "b1 already fouled A1 so I can get in a free shot."