BOO Argument 2

[mcrowder]

After an umpiring meeting last night 3 of us who know our rules pretty well were quizzing each other, using scenarios that had happened in our past. We came across 2 scenarios where we could not agree on the proper enforcement, even after looking in the book. Here's the second one:

Mens Slow-pitch
Unscrupulous coach of the home team, down 4 to a bad team in the 7th inning, despite being undefeated, decides to cheat. Defense's coach is pitching.

Crappy batter B7 is due (B8 and B9 are crappy too - coach fears a 3-up 3-down)

Slugger B3 is sent to the plate, and homers. Defense says nothing.

Slugger B4 then bats and doubles. B5 singles, B4 to third.

Slugger B3 sent to the plate again. Again, defense says nothing. B3 homers, tying the game

B4 pops out, B5 singles. B6 strikes out.

Slugger B3 is sent to the plate again. Defensive pitcher says "Oh come on!", and prepares to pitch.

Question: At any point in this do you, as BU or PU say or do anything to prevent what has already transpired (i.e. did umpire screw up at any point already).

Question 2: When defensive pitcher says "Oh, Come on!", do you take that as a BOO appeal, or ask him to clarify, or do anything at all?

Question 3: At what point, if any, do you eject the coach?

Note - this is not TWP. This actually happened to ME at the age of 20, when I was a player and did not DARE contradict this Bobby-Knight-wannabe coach. I was B5.

[Steve M]

If anything, I might respond to the "Oh, come on." with a "You talkin' to me, Pitcher?" But that's only if I think he's got it & is "trying" to make a BOO appeal.

[greymule]

I wouldn't consider "Oh, come on" to be an appeal. It would be up to the league, not the ump, to penalize this coach for what he did.

What you've described is the kind of thing that can happen in a league where one coach knows nothing and the other decides he's going to take advantage of anything he can. It not uncommon.

To me, it's sort of a GIGO situation. The rules of the game were not written for garbage input, and sending up batters like that against a coach who doesn't know to appeal constitutes garbage input.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mcrowder


Question: At any point in this do you, as BU or PU say or do anything to prevent what has already transpired (i.e. did umpire screw up at any point already).

First time I notice any batter up too soon:

Officially, I don't open my mouth. HOWEVER, as a PU, I may call time step back, turn away from the field and pull out the line-up card. No, not as a tip-off, but to make sure I understand what is happening. If it does cause a reaction by the defense, they will have to come to me, I'm not prodding them into action.

Question 2: When defensive pitcher says "Oh, Come on!", do you take that as a BOO appeal, or ask him to clarify, or do anything at all?

First time I notice any batter up too soon:

I will call time, step out from behind the plate and ask the pitcher if he has a problem. If he chooses to share with me, so be it.

Question 3: At what point, if any, do you eject the coach?

First time I notice any batter up too soon:

See above.

After the second batter up too soon takes a pitch:

Stroll over to the dic..... er, coach and remind/warn him of the penalty for intentionally violating any one of the rules of the game.

If I notice any batter come to the plate too soon after the warning, and they stand in and receive a pitch, legal or illegal, I will forfeit the game under ASA 5.4.F

[Dakota]

Hey, I didn't see this one before!

This one is cool!

Question: even though BOO is a defensive appeal (meaning the umpire may not make the call unless appealed), at what point (if any) is cheating that the umpire is aware of USC?

At the second plate appearance of B3 (B3-B4-B5-B3 - I'm sure I'd notice this!) it would be reasonably clear this is intentional cheating. Is this USC? If so, eject now? If not, warn to get on with the normal batting order or else?

Or, as greymule says, do nothing?

[Dakota]

Mike, I was typing as you were posting - I like your approach. "Hint, hint" to the defense. Although if they didn't notice (or, worse, didn't think they could do anything about) B3-B4-B5-B3, then they may be beyond hope.

Didn't think about forfeit, but clearly applicable after the warning.

[bluezebra]

"First time I notice any batter up too soon:

Officially, I don't open my mouth. HOWEVER, as a PU, I may call time step back, turn away from the field and pull out the line-up card. No, not as a tip-off, but to make sure I understand what is happening. If it does cause a reaction by the defense, they will have to come to me, I'm not prodding them into action."

That isn't a 'hint', it's a definite signal with flares, whistles and fireworks, to the defense. Keep the card in your pocket, and get into position for the pitch. Any off-beat move by you is helping the defense.

Bob

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bluezebra
"First time I notice any batter up too soon:

Officially, I don't open my mouth. HOWEVER, as a PU, I may call time step back, turn away from the field and pull out the line-up card. No, not as a tip-off, but to make sure I understand what is happening. If it does cause a reaction by the defense, they will have to come to me, I'm not prodding them into action."

That isn't a 'hint', it's a definite signal with flares, whistles and fireworks, to the defense. Keep the card in your pocket, and get into position for the pitch. Any off-beat move by you is helping the defense.

Bob

I review a line-up card a few times during a game. If the idiot offensive coach is smart, I will not need to give him a warning.

BTW, it's called preventive umpiring. Just as if you heard someone in the dugout ask another, "Is that a new batter?" and the umpire asks the batter if he is a substitute.

Not searching for boogers, they'll come soon enough.