Family Argument: ...and one!?

[cmcramer]

Forgive my amateur terminology...here goes:

A1 begins a try for a basket.
B1 slaps his arm
Ref whistles the obvious Foul
A1 continues his customary upward shooting motion, such that if the Try was successful, it would count for an “and one” situation.
B2 Then grabs A1 arm, preventing completion of the Try.

What is proper call, if any, on B2?

Thanks for your help!

[BryanV21]

Nothing, as the play is dead at the time the whistle blows for the first foul, unless the contact by B2 is deemed to be flagrant or unsportsmanlike resulting in a technical foul.

Just to be thorough, the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

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[cmcramer]

So coaches should instruct their defenders to foul, intentionally foul, in this situation, because there is no penalty for doing so. Not flagrant, and make it look like a legitimate play, but FOUL! Do not allow shooter to complete a possible 'and one'.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

So coaches should instruct their defenders to foul, intentionally foul, in this situation, because there is no penalty for doing so. Not flagrant, and make it look like a legitimate play, but FOUL! Do not allow shooter to complete a possible 'and one'.

If it's deemed unsportsmanlike, meaning it's not a basketball play, then a tech can be called.

Just like with fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock... Just don't make it obvious.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

A1 begins a try for a basket. B1 slaps his arm. Ref whistles the obvious Foul. A1 continues his customary upward shooting motion, such that if the Try was successful, it would count for an “and one” situation. B2 Then grabs A1 arm, preventing completion of the Try.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

... the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

Agree.

6-7 EXCEPTION C: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: (a foul, other than player-control or team-control) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If it's deemed unsportsmanlike, meaning it's not a basketball play, then a tech can be called.

Maybe I'm confused.

Live ball (continuation) illegal contact a technical foul?

You sure?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe I'm confused.

Live ball (continuation) illegal contact a technical foul?

You sure?

Dammit... No.

I should have kept my mouth shut like I have all season.

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[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

6-7 EXCEPTION C: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: (a foul, other than player-control or team-control) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

Well, this has the makings of a False Multiple Foul. If the foul by B2 is such that it would be assessed, A1 would get 2 free throws for the foul by B1 then 2 free throws for the foul by B2 and the ball would remain alive after the last (fourth) free throw.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Nothing, as the play is dead at the time the whistle blows for the first foul, unless the contact by B2 is deemed to be flagrant or unsportsmanlike resulting in a technical foul.

Just to be thorough, the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

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That makes no sense...the ball is live and that is all you have. There is no such thing as a dead play.

This is the reason the multiple foul is in the books....if you have players doing that on purpose, it is time to pull out the multiple foul. I've never seen it happen, however and do not expect to.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... it is time to pull out the multiple foul.

That's why we all wear a multipurpose utility toolbelt.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That makes no sense...the ball is live and that is all you have. There is no such thing as a dead play.

This is the reason the multiple foul is in the books....if you have players doing that on purpose, it is time to pull out the multiple foul. I've never seen it happen, however and do not expect to.

Agree that the first few posts were less than erudite.

BTW, believe you meant FMF rather than MF. MFs are in the rules, too, but they are even less likely to ever be seen as officials will just pick the fouler in this case (hopefully the scrub rather than the stud).

The only time I could ever see a MF being assessed is if two officials both make the call and go to the table and both report a different dude while not realizing the other is also reporting at the same time. Then you could conceivably have to assess both because the cat was out of the bag, sort of like how you assess a DF on a blarge. But the odds of that happening and one official not yielding are astronomically low.


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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Agree that the first few posts were less than erudite.

BTW, believe you meant FMF rather than MF. MFs are in the rules, too, but they are even less likely to ever be seen as officials will just pick the fouler in this case (hopefully the scrub rather than the stud).

The only time I could ever see a MF being assessed is if two officials both make the call and go to the table and both report a different dude while not realizing the other is also reporting at the same time. Then you could conceivably have to assess both because the cat was out of the bag, sort of like how you assess a DF on a blarge. But the odds of that happening and one official not yielding are astronomically low.


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I actually meant MF. The MF is two players fouling the same opponent at "approximately" the same time. How far apart is close enough to be "approximately"?

I know there is a similar case play which goes to FMF but at what point does it cease to be a MF and become a FMF. That isn't specified.