Player removed jersey before leaving floor

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even the NF rule is kind of silly on many levels

Agree.

High school player fouls out and takes off his jersey and throws it to the bench in frustration directed at an official. Technical foul.

Player is advised in layup line that he can't play with an an illegal undershirt and he quietly and politely goes over to his bench to remove it to comply with a rule and in doing so temporarily removes his jersey. My opinion, not the same as above (even if the NFHS says otherwise).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

High school player fouls out and takes off his jersey and throws it in frustration directed at an official. Technical foul.

Player is advised in layup line that he can't play with an an illegal undershirt and he quietly and politely goes over to his bench to remove it and in doing so temporarily removes his jersey. My opinion, not the same as above (even if the NFHS says otherwise).

The NFHS made this change sometime around when Brandi Chastain (US Women's Soccer) made SI's cover with a shirt removal. Many in the NFHS world didn't want teenage girls emulating that and/or thought it was improper for girls to be removing their shirts in public even though that were not naked and had a sports bra or similar under it. So, at least partially due to the above, they made it illegal to take the shirt off in the gym even if it wasn't unsportsmanlike. To be equal, the rule was made to apply to boys just the same.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The NFHS made this change sometime around when Brandi Chastain (US Women's Soccer) made SI's cover with a shirt removal. Many in the NFHS world didn't want teenage girls emulating that and/or thought it was improper for girls to be removing their shirts in public even though that were not naked and had a sports bra or similar under it. So, at least partially due to the above, they made it illegal to take the shirt off in the gym even if it wasn't unsportsmanlike. To be equal, the rule was made to apply to boys just the same.

Comments On The 2005-06 Rules Revisions
Jerseys/Pants/Skirts Prohibited From Being Removed ... The rule is intended to be applied in all situations - even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

I'm 100% wrong, but if I advise a player that he can't play with an illegal undershirt, I'm ignoring what happens next.

Yeah. I know that we can easily advise that the player go to the locker room, but I'm still ignoring what happens next.

I'm what'cha call a rebel. Yeah. A rebel, I tell you. A rebel.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... if I advise a player that he can't play with an illegal undershirt, I'm ignoring what happens next. Yeah. I know that we can easily advise that the player go to the locker room ...

... So, following my advice, he goes to the locker room to temporarily remove his jersey to comply with a rule and remove an illegal undershirt, but I forget to remind him that he must be accompanied by an adult, and the knucklehead trips and drowns in a toilet. Attorney billable hours aren't cheap.

Too many steps. Can't play with illegal undershirt. Can't temporarily remove a jersey in a not-unsporting manner to comply with a rule within the visual confines of the playing area. Can't go to the locker room unless accompanied by an adult.

Can't. Can't. Can't. Sounds like my mother from sixty years ago.

I'd rather just ignore the temporary not-unsporting removal of a jersey within the visual confines of the playing area for the purpose of removing an illegal undershirt to comply with a rule.

By rule, and interpretation, I'm wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[BillyMac]

Misty watercolor Forum memories from February 2015:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post954696

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'd rather just ignore the temporary not-unsporting removal of a jersey within the visual confines of the playing area for the purpose of removing an illegal undershirt to comply with a rule.

The technical foul is for an unsporting act. The NFHS defines removing the jersey to be an unsporting act. The NFHS lists it as being one of many examples of unsporting acts. So there's not much wiggle room, it is what it is.

By rule, I'm wrong, but I disagree that every instance of a player removing one's jersey is automatically an unsporting act. Being around basketball for over fifty years as a player, coach, and official, I know unsporting when I see it and some instances of players removing jerseys are not unsporting. A player temporarily removing a jersey to comply with a rule is not unsporting. It is unsporting by NFHS definition, but in the larger scheme of things regarding good sportsmanship, it isn't really unsporting. I believe that the NFHS has thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

10-4-6-H: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

10-5-1-H: Bench personnel, including the head coach, must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

[BillyMac]

Playing his second hole of the opening round (Honda Classic) and coming off a bogey at his first, Sebastian Cappelen did what he felt needed to be done – he stripped off his shirt, one shoe and a sock, rolled up his pants, and tried to save par.



Unsporting? One stroke penalty?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The technical foul is for an unsporting act. The NFHS defines removing the jersey to be an unsporting act. The NFHS lists it as being one of many examples of unsporting acts. So there's not much wiggle room, it is what it is.

By rule, I'm wrong, but I disagree that every instance of a player removing one's jersey is automatically an unsporting act. Being around basketball for over fifty years as a player, coach, and official, I know unsporting when I see it and some instances of players removing jerseys are not unsporting. A player temporarily removing a jersey to comply with a rule is not unsporting. It is unsporting by NFHS definition, but in the larger scheme of things regarding good sportsmanship, it isn't really unsporting. I believe that the NFHS has thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

10-4-6-H: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

10-5-1-H: Bench personnel, including the head coach, must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

Excellent point Billy.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The NFHS made this change sometime around when Brandi Chastain (US Women's Soccer) made SI's cover with a shirt removal. Many in the NFHS world didn't want teenage girls emulating that and/or thought it was improper for girls to be removing their shirts in public even though that were not naked and had a sports bra or similar under it. So, at least partially due to the above, they made it illegal to take the shirt off in the gym even if it wasn't unsportsmanlike. To be equal, the rule was made to apply to boys just the same.

Chastain’s jersey removal was following winning the 1999 women’s World Cup. The NFHS rule was 2005. I know that the NFHS is slow with rule changes/new rules, but six years afterward is probably not in response to that act.

[BillyMac]

Many years ago, when coaching at summer camps, I do remember being embarrassed when high school girls switched reversible jerseys in front of male coaches and, yikes, high school boys.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Chastain’s jersey removal was following winning the 1999 women’s World Cup. The NFHS rule was 2005. I know that the NFHS is slow with rule changes/new rules, but six years afterward is probably not in response to that act.

It wasn't direct, it was after similar actions continued to grow over the next few years.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It wasn't direct, it was after similar actions continued to grow over the next few years.

It was a real issue in VB for a number of years around that time. My guess is that the NFHS decided that if they added it to one sport, they needed to add it to all sports (and then if they added it for one sex, they needed to add it for both sexes).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It was a real issue in VB for a number of years around that time.

In know more about metaphysics than I do about volleyball rules, but does this have anything to do with one player wearing a different color jersey (for reasons that bewilder me), as I've seen in some college volleyball games on television?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In know more about metaphysics than I do about volleyball rules, but does this have anything to do with one player wearing a different color jersey (for reasons that bewilder me), as I've seen in some college volleyball games on television?

No. It has to do with HS girls wearing warm-up tops and changing behind the bench out of (removing ) the warmup tops and into game jerseys. It wasn't a game jersey UNDER a "sweat shirt" like you see in basketball.

The libero wears a different color jersey for much the same reason a goalie in soccer does -- different rules apply and the referees (and opponents) need to be able to easily identify this person.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My guess is that the NFHS decided that if they added it to one sport, they needed to add it to all sports (and then if they added it for one sex, they needed to add it for both sexes).

I'm 99% sure that this stuff about removing part of the uniform was added to every NFHS rule book in the same year.