Fun With A Pivot Foot ...

[Raymond]

Your definition of palming must be an IAABO or Connecticut thing, because I've never heard of traveling being interchangeable with palming.

Never in my time of playing or officiating basketball have I heard that dribbling, then putting the ball in the palm of your hand, then lifting and replanting your pivot is the same as palming the ball in between dribbles.

The palming signal has always been used to indicate a specific type of illegal dribble where a player has let the ball come to rest in between dribbles.

If a player is dribbling, then let's the ball come to rest, then illegally moves his pivot foot, then dribbles again, he has committed a travel before he has committed an illegal dribble. Just because in that situation it may be more convenient or easier to sell a palming signal than a traveling signal, doesn't mean that palming (an illegal dribble) and traveling are the same thing.


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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Your definition of palming must be an IAABO or Connecticut thing, because I've never heard of traveling being interchangeable with palming.

Never in my time of playing or officiating basketball have I heard that dribbling, then putting the ball in the palm of your hand, then lifting and replanting your pivot is the same as palming the ball in between dribbles.

The palming signal has always been used to indicate a specific type of illegal dribble where a player has let the ball come to rest in between dribbles.

If a player is dribbling, then let's the ball come to rest, then illegally moves his pivot foot, then dribbles again, he has committed a travel before he has committed an illegal dribble. Just because in that situation it may be more convenient or easier to sell a palming signal than a traveling signal, doesn't mean that palming (an illegal dribble) and traveling are the same thing.


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Both can be considered a carry. It is a 6 vs. half dozen thing. Both are correct, just as the former type of carry is also an illegal dribble.

The carry signal/violation was only added to allow more clear communication when it more clearly indicates the infraction that illegal dribble or travel might convey.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Both can be considered a carry. It is a 6 vs. half dozen thing. Both are correct, just as the former type of carry is also an illegal dribble.



The carry signal/violation was only added to allow more clear communication when it more clearly indicates the infraction that illegal dribble or travel might convey.

If give a palming signal when a a player travels on a spin move where he shoots but doesn't dribble again, I'm going to lose a lot of credibility with my assigners and coaches around here.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If give a palming signal when a a player travels on a spin move where he shoots but doesn't dribble again, I'm going to lose a lot of credibility with my assigners and coaches around here.

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Agree, but if the feet move in the manner of a travel while carrying the ball but the player does eventually dribble again, but you call a travel, you're going to get the same grief. The "carry" in that case is the travel, but no one calls it a travel, they call it a carry.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree, but if the feet move in the manner of a travel while carrying the ball but the player does eventually dribble again, but you call a travel, you're going to get the same grief. The "carry" in that case is the travel, but no one calls it a travel, they call it a carry.

I'm not disagreeing with that. That's why I stated earlier that if a player travels while palming the ball in between dribbles, it's an easier sell to give the palming signal.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... if a player travels while palming the ball in between dribbles, it's an easier sell to give the palming signal.

Agree. That's why it's described in the rulebook and on the signal chart.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. That's why it's described in the rulebook and on the signal chart.

I understand that. But that's not what happened in the video.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Your definition of palming must be an IAABO or Connecticut thing, because I've never heard of traveling being interchangeable with palming.

Actually, it's not. We have guys here in Connecticut that actually believe that there are, by rule, three separate violations: Traveling, carrying, and double (illegal) dribble. Not a big deal since the two actual violations and the signaled violation are all illegal.

Just like guys that orally state "Double dribble" instead of "Illegal dribble" when the phrase "double dribble" doesn't exist anywhere in the rulebook, casebook, or signal chart. They know the rule, give the signal, say "double dribble", and partners, coaches, players, and fans all know exactly what the violation was.

And traveling is not fully interchangeable with palming. Some types of palming are not traveling, but rather are illegal (double) dribbles. It depends on foot movement, or not; and a subsequent dribble, or not.

[BillyMac]

NFHS Palming/Carrying: The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

I can't imagine signaling a carry violation for an act that involves two hands, I would more likely come up with a travel or an illegal (double) dribble, but I guess that it can be called.

I've heard descriptions of palming/carrying, or not, to rookies that involve the hand being perpendicular or parallel to the floor, or the ceiling; and another that uses the thumb of the hand as the hour hand on a clock.

To me, it's just basically the ball coming to rest momentarily in a dribbler's (ball handler's) hand and the dribbler (ball handler) then doing something illegal, be it an illegal (double) subsequent dribble, or a travel (moving a foot or feet in excess of prescribed limits while palming/carrying (holding) the ball).

[BillyMac]

I was thinking it, didn't want to post it, but did anyhow.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... illegally dribbles (feet not moving) a second time ...

Reminds me of the "academic" debate we've had many times here on the Forum about whether to call an illegal (double) dribble immediately as the ball is released from the ball handler's hand for a subsequent (illegal) dribble (by definition of starting a dribble); or to wait until the ball hits the floor, bounces, and is touched again by the ball handler (maybe the act was the start of a bounce pass).

Rule language and interpretation language comes in lots of different flavors. Some like vanilla. Some like chocolate. Some like strawberry.

It all depends on what flavor is preferred in Rome (where one is assigned games and works).