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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:36am
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still confusing.

in ur case you said after the pivot foot (let's assume left) leaves the ground you can take another step (right) (2 step after dribble run), does it mean as long as the pivot foot that is airborne doesn't touch the ground you can still stand on the non pivot foot? In this case can't you keep hopping with your non pivot foot that is on the ground while the pivot foot is still in the air?

also in my example, the player sets left as his pivot foot then sets his right foot on the ground (so both feet on the ground), this means he can extend his right non pivot foot to as far as he can, lift off his left pivot foot 1st then jumps on his right non pivot foot to get maximum lateral extension?

is there another rule to govern such cases?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If a player picks up his dribble with one foot on the floor, that foot is his pivot and if he lifts that foot, he must shoot, pass, or request timeout prior to putting it back on the floor. If he picks up his dribble while airborne, his first foot down is the pivot. If he lands on both, or picks up his dribble with both feet on the floor, either foot can be the pivot.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
still confusing.

in ur case you said after the pivot foot (let's assume left) leaves the ground you can take another step (right) (2 step after dribble run), does it mean as long as the pivot foot that is airborne doesn't touch the ground you can still stand on the non pivot foot? In this case can't you keep hopping with your non pivot foot that is on the ground while the pivot foot is still in the air?
A player may not hop or jump, even off his non pivot foot. That's explicitly ruled traveling in the rules.

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Originally Posted by potato View Post
also in my example, the player sets left as his pivot foot then sets his right foot on the ground (so both feet on the ground), this means he can extend his right non pivot foot to as far as he can, lift off his left pivot foot 1st then jumps on his right non pivot foot to get maximum lateral extension?

is there another rule to govern such cases?
Okay, if a player has his left foot as his pivot, he may step with his right foot, setting it on the floor. He may then lift his left pivot foot in a step, and proceed to jump off of his right foot to shoot or pass. That is legal, and it's done all the time in what's typically referred to as a "step through" move. I actually see it more often in girls ball, for some reason.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 07:56pm
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just one thought ... with all the questions, you might find it useful to buy a rules book. I played basketball through HS, but you think of traveling differently.

When I took my officials class, being able to read through the section (4-44) in the rules book which explains exactly how the pivot foot is established was very helpful and it gives you a different perspective on traveling.

If you understand how the pivot foot is established, and learn to identify the pivot foot on a given play, then traveling is quite easy to understand.

1) you identify the pivot foot.
2) is the player dribbling or passing/shooting.
If the player dribbles, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.
If the player is passing or shooting, the pivot foot may be lifted but the ball must be released before the pivot foot is returned to the floor.

That covers probably 99% of all traveling calls.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:00pm
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the 1st & 2nd scenario is conflicting as the 1st rule would prevent players from doing step through

for the 2nd replay you misunderstood abit. i watch youtube step through is where you do 2 step running for layup after picking up the dribble.

what i'm referring to is when the player picked up his dribble, established his pivot foot (assume left foot) then moved his non-pivot foot so both feet are on the ground, he does what a post player would do turn around using his non pivot foot while his pivot foot is still on the ground, he sees an opening on his far right side. He then extends his right leg as far as he can, left pivot foot leaves the ground 1st then lifts off with his right leg to get maximum lateral distance (so his pivot foot won't lock his distance). Is this legal or does the pivot foot have to leave together or after the non-pivot foot? Because your 1st statement would make it illegal to jump off the non pivot foot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
A player may not hop or jump, even off his non pivot
foot. That's explicitly ruled traveling in the rules.



Okay, if a player has his left foot as his pivot, he may step with his right foot, setting it on the floor. He may then lift his left pivot foot in a step, and proceed to jump off of his right foot to shoot or pass. That is legal, and it's done all the time in what's typically referred to as a "step through" move. I actually see it more often in girls ball, for some reason.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:02pm
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when a person is still dribbling, how do you determine the pivot foot?
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
when a person is still dribbling, how do you determine the pivot foot?
There is no pivot foot while a player is dribbling.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
when a person is still dribbling, how do you determine the pivot foot?
There is no pivot foot while a player is dribbling. While dribbling, there are no restrictions on foot movement.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:22pm
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but u wrote:

If the player dribbles, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.

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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
There is no pivot foot while a player is dribbling.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
but u wrote:

If the player dribbles, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.
When a player catches the ball and establishes a pivot foot, the ball must be released at the start of the dribble before the foot is lifted.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:38pm
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ok that makes more sense.

just wondering same strict rule apply if a player is receiving the ball while running at full speed, or is he allowed some leniency because it would be awfully difficult to start a dribble so quick should he receives the ball while airborne+fullspeed and lands on a foot where he establish his pivot foot.


also:
when the player picked up his dribble, established his pivot foot (assume left foot) then moved his non-pivot foot so both feet are on the ground, he does what a post player would do turn around using his non pivot foot while his pivot foot is still on the ground, he sees an opening on his far right side. He then extends his right leg as far as he can, left pivot foot leaves the ground 1st then lifts off with his right leg to get maximum lateral distance (so his pivot foot won't lock his distance). Is this legal or does the pivot foot have to leave together or after the non-pivot foot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
When a player catches the ball and establishes a pivot foot, the ball must be released at the start of the dribble before the foot is lifted.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
ok that makes more sense.

just wondering same strict rule apply if a player is receiving the ball while running at full speed, or is he allowed some leniency because it would be awfully difficult to start a dribble so quick should he receives the ball while airborne+fullspeed and lands on a foot where he establish his pivot foot.
No one is going to call it if we can't tell for sure that he caught it and picked up his pivot foot prior to dribbling. Most players don't catch it for that long on the run. I've called it, but it's usually pretty clear to everyone in the gym.

Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
also:
when the player picked up his dribble, established his pivot foot (assume left foot) then moved his non-pivot foot so both feet are on the ground, he does what a post player would do turn around using his non pivot foot while his pivot foot is still on the ground, he sees an opening on his far right side. He then extends his right leg as far as he can, left pivot foot leaves the ground 1st then lifts off with his right leg to get maximum lateral distance (so his pivot foot won't lock his distance). Is this legal or does the pivot foot have to leave together or after the non-pivot foot?
Perfectly legal, as I'm picturing it. There is no rule about which foot has to go up first. I've never even heard of such a misunderstanding. Nor is there any limit on lateral distance that can be covered.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:56pm
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But you mentioned:

A player may not hop or jump, even off his non pivot foot. That's explicitly ruled traveling in the rules.

In my scenario his pivot foot is off the ground and he jumps with his non pivot foot. It's not a step through right since he already stopped his dribble long time ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Perfectly legal, as I'm picturing it. There is no rule about which foot has to go up first. I've never even heard of such a misunderstanding. Nor is there any limit on lateral distance that can be covered.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
But you mentioned:

A player may not hop or jump, even off his non pivot foot. That's explicitly ruled traveling in the rules.

In my scenario his pivot foot is off the ground and he jumps with his non pivot foot. It's not a step through right since he already stopped his dribble long time ago?
It's traveling when the pivot returns to the floor. You may jump, lifting either foot first prior to releasing a shot or a pass.
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Old Wed Mar 27, 2013, 01:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potato View Post
But you mentioned:

A player may not hop or jump, even off his non pivot foot. That's explicitly ruled traveling in the rules.

In my scenario his pivot foot is off the ground and he jumps with his non pivot foot. It's not a step through right since he already stopped his dribble long time ago?
It isn't a travel unless and until he lands while continuously holding the ball. The hop I referred to as a travel includes the landing as your example indicated (hopping on the non pivot while keeping the pivot foot in the air.)
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