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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 04:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I wouldn't make that assumption. I've worked plenty of NCAA games with untrained shot clock operators.
A lot of times it is a student that does not even know the rules to that part of the game.

Peace
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 05:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
No, an official will not do this. Just a trained shot-clock operator, as in a college game.
BAHAHAHAHA

Anything below D1 is hit or miss when it comes to having "trained" operators. At the lowest levels (i.e. JuCo) it would be the exception rather than the norm to have someone who really knows what (s)he is doing.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 05:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The NCAAW (and, I assume, NCAAM) rule book have the timer / scorer as officials by including them as bullet points under something like:

The game officials are:
a) Referee and umpires
b) Timers and scorer

FED does not: The game officials must be a referee and an umpire or a referee and two umpires who shall be assisted by an official timer and scorer.

That whole "who shall be assisted by..." is either poor wording or makes them not game officials.

None of that affects anything I do on a nightly basis. So, it's probably just semantics, depending, of course, on what you mean by semantics.
The distinction for NFHS is that they are not "game" officials, but "table" officials.....still officials, just not game officials.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jun 25, 2020 at 04:07am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 08:48pm
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With all this talk about the distinctions between floor officials and table officials, we really could use the input of our former forum expert CHS Eagle. I'm sending out the Bat Signal for him as soon as the sun goes down.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 25, 2020, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What do you mean by "another referee?" When do referees run the clock? Now if that is a local thing, then I guess, but not the case in many parts of the country.

Not a huge fan of the shot clock for all high school games.

Peace
Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games. For the other association, clock operators (game and shot), and sometimes scorekeepers are hired by the schools along with the game officials. Any of the clock operators/scorekeepers who is also an on-floor official serves as an alternate official. I have been called into action as an alternate myself.

In the other associations I work for, students or faculty serve as table personnel for all games. Usually, faculty do a better job than students, but there are some exceptions.

Officials as ECOs and shot clock operators work best, but faculty operators also work well. DC has had a shot clock since about 2016, and MD has had a shot clock for girls since 1970, and for boys since 2018. I like the phase-in plan for GA, because it gives schools time to acquire shot clock units. Maybe NFHS will adopt something similar, because it already phases in uniform requirements, or VHSL could adopt something similar, to make rules more consistent across the DMV.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 25, 2020, 03:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games. For the other association, clock operators (game and shot), and sometimes scorekeepers are hired by the schools along with the game officials. Any of the clock operators/scorekeepers who is also an on-floor official serves as an alternate official. I have been called into action as an alternate myself.

In the other associations I work for, students or faculty serve as table personnel for all games. Usually, faculty do a better job than students, but there are some exceptions.

Officials as ECOs and shot clock operators work best, but faculty operators also work well. DC has had a shot clock since about 2016, and MD has had a shot clock for girls since 1970, and for boys since 2018. I like the phase-in plan for GA, because it gives schools time to acquire shot clock units. Maybe NFHS will adopt something similar, because it already phases in uniform requirements, or VHSL could adopt something similar, to make rules more consistent across the DMV.
They might be best, but no such requirement here in either state I work. I do not know we could guarantee the number of officials to cover games in that manner.

Peace
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 25, 2020, 03:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games. For the other association, clock operators (game and shot), and sometimes scorekeepers are hired by the schools along with the game officials. Any of the clock operators/scorekeepers who is also an on-floor official serves as an alternate official. I have been called into action as an alternate myself.

In the other associations I work for, students or faculty serve as table personnel for all games. Usually, faculty do a better job than students, but there are some exceptions.

Officials as ECOs and shot clock operators work best, but faculty operators also work well. DC has had a shot clock since about 2016, and MD has had a shot clock for girls since 1970, and for boys since 2018. I like the phase-in plan for GA, because it gives schools time to acquire shot clock units. Maybe NFHS will adopt something similar, because it already phases in uniform requirements, or VHSL could adopt something similar, to make rules more consistent across the DMV.
Not sure why the VHSL would need to be consistent with DC and Maryland. We also border West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina. I know along the southern border many associations have officials who also work in NC.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 25, 2020, 11:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games. For the other association, clock operators (game and shot), and sometimes scorekeepers are hired by the schools along with the game officials. Any of the clock operators/scorekeepers who is also an on-floor official serves as an alternate official. I have been called into action as an alternate myself.
I know of no school districts anywhere in our state who either have or who'd admit to have the funding for this. In fact, I predict school boards in our state will compel AD's to revert to 2-person very soon. I'm surprised this shoe hasn't dropped by now. The fit will hit the shan then. But our preference be the last of the concerns school districts are left to contend with. Survival will predominate over athletic concerns.
I reserve the right to be wrong.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 26, 2020, 06:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
I know of no school districts anywhere in our state who either have or who'd admit to have the funding for this. In fact, I predict school boards in our state will compel AD's to revert to 2-person very soon. I'm surprised this shoe hasn't dropped by now. The fit will hit the shan then. But our preference be the last of the concerns school districts are left to contend with. Survival will predominate over athletic concerns.
I reserve the right to be wrong.
This is the biggest impediment to this ever coming into place. I do not see schools in this environment advocating thousands of dollars spent just for these devices in one situation.

Peace
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 26, 2020, 08:20am
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A Dearth Of Officials ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I do not know we could guarantee the number of officials to cover games in that manner.
While most states seem to have problems recruiting young officials to replace retiring veteran officials, it appears that DC/Virginia/Maryland have a plethora of basketball officials.
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