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Old Tue Jun 23, 2020, 06:39pm
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Location: LaGrange, Ga.
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High school shot clock?

Broadcaster here. Today, Georgia voted for a 30 second shot clock.

Only approved holiday tournaments and showcase games will use the shot clock during the 2020-21 season. In 2021-22, however, all region games will feature a shot clock, while it will be a permanent fixture in all varsity games in 2022-23, including state playoffs.

Will that mean another referee to work the shot clock? As basketball referees, what are your thoughts on the shot clock being implemented?

I'll hang up and listen. Thanks.
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Old Tue Jun 23, 2020, 06:51pm
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What do you mean by "another referee?" When do referees run the clock? Now if that is a local thing, then I guess, but not the case in many parts of the country.

Not a huge fan of the shot clock for all high school games.

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Old Tue Jun 23, 2020, 08:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What do you mean by "another referee?" When do referees run the clock? Now if that is a local thing, then I guess, but not the case in many parts of the country.

Not a huge fan of the shot clock for all high school games.

Peace
In high school football, someone in referee stripes with patches runs the play clock. I figured the same would be the case with the shot clock in high school basketball. But that's why I ask here, to learn. I appreciate everyone who teaches folks like me on this forum.
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Old Tue Jun 23, 2020, 10:05pm
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No, an official will not do this. Just a trained shot-clock operator, as in a college game.

In Massachusetts, we have had a 30-second shot clock for all high school and many intercity 5th-8th grade games for more than a decade.

Typically, you have a scorer, a timer and a shot clock operator at the table. Sometimes, an experienced and highly capable person handles both timer and shot clock duties.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:40am
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How this is handled depends upon the location.
Some areas used people for the table crew (scorer, timer, and possible shot clock operator) who are part of a group or association which provides the training and provides coverage of this personnel for the various schools. Las Vegas, which does not employ a shot clock, operates in this manner. There is a an association for the local scorers and timers which is a subsidiary of the local officials association. The pay for the table personnel is negotiated with the schools district (or individual private schools) through this group.

The Sacramento area, which has a shot clock, simply allows the host schools to provide these people and give them whatever training is needed or allow them to learn on the job. The schools compensate them directly at their discretion.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 12:47am
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During my 46 years of officiating I officiated women's college for 34 years, that means 34 years of officiating with a shot clock and during that time I also officiated two years of girls' H.S. in California and men's jr. college for 15 years as well as being a USA Basketball Referee (FIBA Rules). And I did not have any problems officiating games which used a Shot Clock

That said I have never been a proponent of the Shot Clock at any level including the NBA/WNBA. It is almost 02:00amEDT and I am going to bed and my objections to a Shot Clock are for another discussion some other time.

Goodnight all,

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 03:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoflg View Post
In high school football, someone in referee stripes with patches runs the play clock. I figured the same would be the case with the shot clock in high school basketball. But that's why I ask here, to learn. I appreciate everyone who teaches folks like me on this forum.
That explains that for me, not how it works where I live with the play clock in football. We either do it on the field (no field game clock and done that way at all levels) or the person that runs the game clock is someone provided by the school. There are no licensed officials doing this at all. So if there was ever a shot clock added in my states, then I doubt they would use a basketball official. It would probably be a person provided by the school just like what happens when we have a scorekeeper and clock operator. Those are people associated with the school hosting the game. What you guys do sounds local.

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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 07:50am
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Originally Posted by ODog View Post
No, an official will not do this. Just a trained shot-clock operator, as in a college game.
I guess I'm going to be "that guy" now.

By rule (NCAA and NCAAW Rule 2), the scorers, timers, and shot clock operators ARE officials. They may not be wearing stripes, well trained, or belong to an officials association, but they most definitely are officials.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 10:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I guess I'm going to be "that guy" now.

By rule (NCAA and NCAAW Rule 2), the scorers, timers, and shot clock operators ARE officials. They may not be wearing stripes, well trained, or belong to an officials association, but they most definitely are officials.
They are under NFHS rules to...also Rule 2, Section 1 "GAME AND TABLE OFFICIALS".
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 11:16am
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Should be revised to state: "game and table Personnel".
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 02:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I guess I'm going to be "that guy" now.

By rule (NCAA and NCAAW Rule 2), the scorers, timers, and shot clock operators ARE officials. They may not be wearing stripes, well trained, or belong to an officials association, but they most definitely are officials.
I will be that guy in return.

It does not require an officials or state license to do that job. So yes by rule they are considered officials, but anyone off the street can do that job and there are no consequences for them not being licensed. At least with most of us. Maybe not in the state where this was first mentioned, but the school does the hiring for this position in the vast majority of these cases.

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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 02:32pm
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I don't disagree with any of that. In fact, that's pretty much exactly what I said.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 03:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I don't disagree with any of that. In fact, that's pretty much exactly what I said.
But you do realize that those were stating that they are not officials was not saying what they are considered by rules? The issue again is that most places do not ask licensed officials to do these things. But that is rare in a few cases. Just pointing out the difference.

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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 03:36pm
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The NCAAW (and, I assume, NCAAM) rule book have the timer / scorer as officials by including them as bullet points under something like:

The game officials are:
a) Referee and umpires
b) Timers and scorer

FED does not: The game officials must be a referee and an umpire or a referee and two umpires who shall be assisted by an official timer and scorer.

That whole "who shall be assisted by..." is either poor wording or makes them not game officials.

None of that affects anything I do on a nightly basis. So, it's probably just semantics, depending, of course, on what you mean by semantics.
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Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
No, an official will not do this. Just a trained shot-clock operator, as in a college game.

....
I wouldn't make that assumption. I've worked plenty of NCAA games with untrained shot clock operators.
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