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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 12, 2020, 10:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*The email from Management stated that there is NO requirement to wear a Face mask, just a recommendation. I won't be wearing a face mask; however, the latex gloves (a pair will be provided at the table) were stated as "mandatory for use" in officiating their games.
The gloves wont really serve any purpose after touching the ball and your whistle a few times.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 12, 2020, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The gloves wont really serve any purpose after touching the ball and your whistle a few times.
Unless they remind you not to touch your face.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 12, 2020, 01:08pm
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One hand touches the ball only and the other one touches the whistle? Hand sanitizer timeouts under 6 and 2 minutes? We can really get rediculous if we wanted.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 12, 2020, 02:55pm
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doing the best we can...

I agree with all the remarks regarding the "questionable" efficacy of using these latex gloves; however, it is the directive from Management thus it is definite that non-compliance will result in your removal from reffing their games. Remember, that Management also has Stake-holders (e.g., parents, trustees of the youth council, and others) who are "looking" at what efforts they are making to reduce the spread. So, Management also must answer to a "higher power" per se. I have no problem wearing such gloves---easy peezi!
I pray that you'all will be likewise mindful.

Last edited by Kansas Ref; Fri Jun 12, 2020 at 02:56pm. Reason: spellin
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 12, 2020, 05:37pm
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I'd get the heavy nitrile gloves if I had to wear gloves. Latex is too flimsy. I get big cases every year for skinning critters.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 17, 2020, 03:37pm
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How about just having a whistle in your mouth white wearing a mask? I ran around my yard to test it and it works fine, just looked geeky, although I look geeky without the mask. The whistle pushes the mask forward a bit, making it easy to breath, even when jogging.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 17, 2020, 04:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
How about just having a whistle in your mouth white wearing a mask? I ran around my yard to test it and it works fine, just looked geeky, although I look geeky without the mask. The whistle pushes the mask forward a bit, making it easy to breath, even when jogging.
And when you need to report or otherwise speak? Then what?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 18, 2020, 01:26pm
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Is That A Bottle Of Hand Sanitizer In Your Pocket ...

... or are you just happy to see me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
And when you need to report or otherwise speak?
I've been wearing my surgical mask in the presence of my adult children and grandchildren and they have no problem understanding me, nor do I have any problem being understood while masked when I venture out of my bomb shelter to hunt and gather food once a week.

It would certainly be less than ideal to officiate a basketball game while masked, but it can be done. I'd prefer not to, but I will if it helps to keep the players, coaches, table crew, and my partner safe.

We have a veteran official on our local board who is deaf and doesn't speak. I've worked with him a dozen times and he has no major problems with communication, game management, etc. Pregame is tough, but once we get onto the court he's a great official, a good partner, and is well respected by coaches and players.

Masks. Electronic whistles. Gloves. Bottles of hand sanitizer in our pockets. I hope that it doesn't come to that. Hopefully we'll be in better shape when school starts in September.

On the other hand, if things get worse, we may have bigger things, more important things, to worry about than how we'll officiate kid's games, like the delicate balancing act of preserving both our health and our economy (I'm lucky, I'm retired).

Luckily I only officiate basketball. I'll leave it up my fall sports official friends to work out any safety protocol bugs before I start officiating in late November.

Fortunately, I don't count on basketball officiating for the income, so sitting out a season, by state decision, or by my own personal health decision, won't have a major effect on my wallet.

My daughter is expecting in a few weeks, so I have made a personal health decision not to got to church (reopened with restrictions last week) and not to go the gym (reopened with restrictions yesterday) until after I see my new grandson.

Even then, I will still wear my surgical mask and maintain social distancing, better safe than sorry.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 18, 2020 at 03:49pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 18, 2020, 05:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

I've been wearing my surgical mask in the presence of my adult children and grandchildren and they have no problem understanding me, nor do I have any problem being understood while masked when I venture out of my bomb shelter to hunt and gather food once a week.
The point wasn't about the mask being a problem with intelligibility but you still have a whistle. Where does the whistle go while you're trying to talk? Still inside the mask? That is going to be annoying. How to you put the whistle back in your mouth? Pull the mask aside, touch it, then touch everything else, pretty much defeating the purpose of the mask.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jun 18, 2020 at 10:36pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
We have a veteran official on our local board who is deaf and doesn't speak. I've worked with him a dozen times and he has no major problems with communication, game management, etc. Pregame is tough, but once we get onto the court he's a great official, a good partner, and is well respected by coaches and players.

Masks. Electronic whistles. Gloves. Bottles of hand sanitizer in our pockets. I hope that it doesn't come to that.
In my area, there is a hearing-impaired person who both coaches and officiates basketball. This person relies on lip-reading to know what people say. How do officials that are required to wear masks communicate with hearing-impaired coaches or partners?

Right before COVID-19 broke out, I got hand sanitizer more to be safe during flu season than anything else. Little did I know it was about to become a hot commodity and that I might need it outside of flu season.
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Last edited by Stat-Man; Thu Jun 18, 2020 at 08:42pm.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 18, 2020, 11:33pm
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Batteries Included ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The point wasn't about the mask being a problem with intelligibility but you still have a whistle. Where does the whistle go while you're trying to talk? Still inside the mask? That is going to be annoying. How to you put the whistle back in your mouth? Pull the mask aside, touch it, then touch everything else, pretty much defeating the purpose of the mask.
I can sound my whistle through the surgical mask (washable cloth) with the whistle on the outside of the mask (which is how I pictured bucky's post). Still far from ideal, but possible. Probably need a new mask each quarter as it gets wetter and wetter.

Then of course there's always those electronic whistles.

The "plague" will either be winding down, maybe with the help of an MRNA vaccine, or a therapeutic drug (maybe dexamethasonen), in which case we won't have to worry about masks, or it may come back with a vengeance where schools may not be in session, and of course, no games.

The gray area in between is where we may have to get creative with masks, electronic whistles, gloves, hand sanitizer, antiseptic wipes, etc.

The schools, or the state, will tell us what we need to do, we can do it, or chose not to work games, as groups (boards, associations, etc.), or as individuals based on our own health and our personal acceptable level of risk or responsibility.

If there are COVID-19 games, and if we chose to officiate, no safety protocol will be 100% perfect, there will probably always be some degree of compromise, compromising the health of the participants, or compromising the quality of our officiating.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Jun 19, 2020 at 11:43am.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 18, 2020, 11:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
How do officials that are required to wear masks communicate with hearing-impaired coaches or partners?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 07:57pm
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One can grab the whistle through the mask, remove it from the mouth and speak if necessary. Speaking will be an issue for everybody, presuming all are wearing masks. Imagine all the things you would not understand from a coach who is wearing a mask. It is simply the nature of the situation. Same with lip-readers. The nature of radio makes it impossible for lip readers and it would be the same here. There will always be some that are physically impaired. Can't cater to everyone although we do the best we can. If the masks were worn, imagine how big body language would become, lol. The electronic whistles could work but they do sound different and there would be a learning curve as far as delays, inadvertent whistles, looking different, etc.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 08:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
One can grab the whistle through the mask, remove it from the mouth and speak if necessary. Speaking will be an issue for everybody, presuming all are wearing masks. Imagine all the things you would not understand from a coach who is wearing a mask. It is simply the nature of the situation. Same with lip-readers. The nature of radio makes it impossible for lip readers and it would be the same here. There will always be some that are physically impaired. Can't cater to everyone although we do the best we can. If the masks were worn, imagine how big body language would become, lol. The electronic whistles could work but they do sound different and there would be a learning curve as far as delays, inadvertent whistles, looking different, etc.
I've tried 3 of the electronic whistles. They may sound a little different but the ones I got were really close to a Fox 40. In fact, 2 of them were made by Fox 40
. They were just slightly quieter (as measured by my ears AND a sound meter).

They sound instantly when pressing the button, so there isn't any delay to speak of. In fact, they may have a bit better timing than air since, if you were exhaling at the point you needed a whistle, you have to breath in first before you can blow (much).

Also, the sound can be held at full volume while pressing the button. With air, the attack is sharp and loud but it is difficult to maintain peak volume and the level quickly falls below electronic whistle's level after a brief time....but usually longer than we normally need. It may be that the advantage of the standard whistle is the strong attack.

As for being able to grab the whistle through the mask, that means you'll be touching your mask countless times through the game. That, touching the mask, particularly over and over, is one of things that defeats the purpose of wearing one.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 24, 2020, 11:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I've tried 3 of the electronic whistles. They may sound a little different but the ones I got were really close to a Fox 40. In fact, 2 of them were made by Fox 40
. They were just slightly quieter (as measured by my ears AND a sound meter).

They sound instantly when pressing the button, so there isn't any delay to speak of. In fact, they may have a bit better timing than air since, if you were exhaling at the point you needed a whistle, you have to breath in first before you can blow (much).

Also, the sound can be held at full volume while pressing the button. With air, the attack is sharp and loud but it is difficult to maintain peak volume and the level quickly falls below electronic whistle's level after a brief time....but usually longer than we normally need. It may be that the advantage of the standard whistle is the strong attack.

As for being able to grab the whistle through the mask, that means you'll be touching your mask countless times through the game. That, touching the mask, particularly over and over, is one of things that defeats the purpose of wearing one.
I was referring to the delay of the official deciding to press the button. Some might be quick and do it well after a short term of practice/adjustment/refinement. The other 80%, many on the older side, could easily struggle. I can see where many would opt out of a hand-held whistle simply because they are "set in their ways" and are resistant to change. You ever try to critique and older official? it rarely works. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I would not envision touching the mask "..countless times.." Additionally, one could easily put a new on one every quarter. The masks protect others from the wearer. I would not be surprised, although it is not perfect, if all players/coaches/officials were required to be tested. It is getting easier and more efficient every day. If there are 30 players, maybe 4 coaches, and 3 officials who were tested/cleared, touching the ball/masks, etc. would not be a concern of mine. The ball could easily be sanitized/wiped, masks changed, etc. and again, I would not be too concerned. Maybe I am too optimistic.
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