Wrong team awarded AP throw-in

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's harder to continue to do at a MS game -- especially if it's girls and if you work two (or more) in a row. Some of the games have more held balls than points (or so it seems)

Been there. Done that.

I had an odd doubleheader last week. One extremely large middle school, Chippens Hill, is so large that it actually has two boys teams and two girls teams, two called the White Team (listed that way on Arbiter) and two called the Blue Team (reversible jerseys for games that required such).

I had this school's annual end of season intraschool doubleheader. White boys versus Blue boys, followed by White girls versus Blue girls. I guess that there had been an earlier season intraschool game with both White teams being the home teams so in this game both Blue teams (wearing blue jerseys) were the home teams and the site director insisted that it was to be this way on the scoreboard.

I figured, "Why sweat the small stuff, no problem". Famous last words.

Both games were close all the way to the end. Scoreboard watching was important at the end (possible tactical or strategic fouling). Try as I must, I kept on having to ask the crowd, "Who's ahead?".

I had worked several previous games at this site with teams from other schools, so in the back of mind I knew which "school" was the home team, which made it even more confusing.

My head was spinning after the doubleheader.

Earlier in both games I told the crowd, "I've got twenty bucks that says Chippens Hill wins".

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I completely disagree with your statement that the officials should be recording the arrow. By rule, that is not our responsibility. If the scorer fails to track individual or team fouls, do you want the officials to keep those totals as well? Stop putting everything on the officials and let the other personnel handle their duties.

You do? You truly disagree that refs should not record A/P in some way when there isn't one present? Wow, what do you do then, nothing? Do you guess every held ball? Do you ask the coaches? Plus, refs do many things that our not our responsibility "by rule". Keep track of fouls? Of course not as it is too difficult to manage for most, but recording the A/P is easy and prevents far more headaches than foul counts. The premise is a MS game and letting most personnel (BM cited students) handle their duties is ill-advised. In fact, I bet the OP was about a table not handling their duties correctly. It is very likely that the table misinformed the crew. If the refs were recording it correctly, then there likely would not have been the error. Get real Nevada.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... disagree with your statement that the officials should be recording the arrow.

Originally Posted by bucky

You truly disagree that refs should not record A/P in some way ...

"Recording" is a strong word, and while it's true that the NFHS doesn't require officials to record the alternating possession arrow (it only requires an arrow at the table and a record of "jump balls" (interestingly not held balls, or intermissions, stupid NFHS) in the scorebook), it's probably a good idea that officials have an educated "opinion" when it comes to the correct direction of the alternating possession arrow, be it a memory, a whistle in one's pocket, or an elastic band on one's wrist. This is especially true when there are student scorekeepers and timekeepers at the table.

While a whistle in one's pocket is strongly encouraged (and taught to rookies) here in my little corner of Connecticut (on all levels, including varsity, been doing this since God created the alternating possession arrow on the eighth day), it's not mandatory (but it's pretty close to mandatory, our "Rome thing").

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by LRZ

How about this -- apply the rule as written. .

Follow the rule book. The rule was written for a reason. if a rule needs to be changed, advocate for a change to the people who can change it but don't just make up your own rules.

Imagine the next week in the finals when this happens again and the refs apply the rule as written -- how crazy that coach is going to get because "it wasn't done that way last game".

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

Equipment issues (especially undershirts, same color as jersey, so simple, especially in a boys game).

[zm1283]

I'm just surprised to hear of how many middle school games in other parts of the country go without an AP arrow on the table. I worked a handful of middle school games this past fall before the high school season got started. I think every one of them had an arrow. And relatively well-trained adults at the table. Most, not all, schools here pay teachers or other staff to work the table for all games no matter the level.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Billy:

ROFLMTO!!

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I think that IAABO Officials in the Nutmeg State are requited to use the "whistle in the pocket" to keep track of the AP Arrow. Billy can give us all a complete explanation as to what is required.

Now for my two cents or my $50 lecture:

As an evaluator, if I see you using either the "rubber band on the wrist" or the "whistle in the pocket" method I am going to 'ding' you. All Officials in the Crew should remember how the Arrow was set at the start of the game. From that point on all Officials in the Crew should remember who is to should every succeeding AP Arrow. It is not very difficult.

Watch any Baseball game whether it is NFHS, NCAA, MiLB, or MLB; the only Umpire in the Crew that has a Ball/Strike Indicator is the PU; none of the BUs will have a Ball/Strike Indicator with them on the Field. Does that mean that the BUs do not know the Count and how many Outs there are? No! But we train ourselves to keep track of the information in our head at all times.

Just remember who gets the first AP Arrow and then remember who gets the next AP Arrow.

Billy: If I am evaluating in the Nutmeg State I won't 'ding" anyone but I will strongly suggest that Officials to learn to do it as I explained in the above paragraph. If an old geezer like me can remember the number of Outs and the Count in a Baseball game anyone can keep track of the AP Arrow in a Basketball game.

One side note: Watch any Softball game (NFHS, NCAA, USA Softball, and USSSA) and one will see the BUs carrying Ball/Strike Indicators on the Field because the Mechanics for the four major Softball codes require it. Mark, Jr., has intense dislike of doing it but at the college level at which he umpires he cannot be seen without it. I just carry a Ball/Strike Indicator in my right hand pocket so I can claim that I have one with me on the Field. The difference between Baseball and Softball just means that Baseball Umpires have better memories, LOL!

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

... or are you just happy to see me? (Apologies to Mae West).

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I think that IAABO Officials in the Nutmeg State are requited to use the "whistle in the pocket" to keep track of the AP Arrow. Billy can give us all a complete explanation as to what is required.

Not all of Connecticut, as far as I know, just my little comer of Connecticut.

"Required" is a strong word. "Encouraged" is a better word.

Immediately after the opening jump ball, immediately after the first possession of the game, officials puts their extra whistle in the pocket in the basket (not bench) direction of the next alternating possession arrow (half the time it's already in that pocket), as one faces the table (both referee and umpire).

Every time there's a held ball throwin, or an intermission throwin, the officials switch the whistles in their pockets.

After the buzzer sounds to end the second period, both officials meet in the center circle and the referee states (as both switch whistles in their pockets, "White (or whoever) ball to start the second half". Both approach the table, umpire gets the jackets, referee switches the alternating possession arrow at the table and states to the table, "White (or whoever) ball to start the second half. Come get everybody when there's three minutes left".

Rinse and repeat for overtimes.

We can't be "dinged" because it's an accepted mechanic in my little comer of Connecticut. In fact, if there's an alternating possession arrow problem and the officials don't have a whistle in their pockets, they are likely to be "dinged" a little, not too badly, a little spit and rubbing compound will take it out.