Wrong team awarded AP throw-in

[BoomerSooner]

I agree with Rich's point that a "do over" in this situation makes logical sense, but the problem is the myriad of what ifs that come in to play. The rule was written the way it was to provide a consistent way to deal with this situation and avoiding the various things that might happen after the throw-in is completed. Obviously it makes sense in the situation presented because only 4 seconds elapsed, but what if it had been 30 seconds? Do we still have a do over? What if the defense had committed a foul and it was discovered at that point? Do we still have a do over including erasing the foul? What if the offense had called a timeout and it was discovered then? Do we still have a do over and give the timeout back? I'm sure we could come up with logical ways to handle all of these, but the door is wide open for random decisions by officials if it isn't supported by the rules.

[LRZ]

How about this? If there is an intervening act--e.g., a foul, violation or basket--apply the rule as written. If not, do it over. This would be as consistent as the current rule.

I've had this happen once or twice. In one game, we caught our error just after the in-bound player caught the throw-in; we did a do-over. The other time, the coach brought our error to our attention after a basket had been scored; I explained the rule to the coach, who accepted the explanation, and we played on from the point of the basket.

In any event, it serves as a reminder, when there is a break in the action, to always reinforce whose throw-in and where.

Edit, after Raymond's comment (Post #7): Neither of my errors occurred on AP possessions, but after time-outs. But Raymond's point is a good one.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by LRZ

How about this? If there is an intervening act--e.g., a foul, violation or basket--apply the rule as written. If not, do it over. This would be as consistent as the current rule.

I've had this happen once or twice. In one game, we caught our error just after the in-bound player caught the throw-in; we did a do-over. The other time, the coach brought our error to our attention after a basket had been scored; I explained the rule to the coach, who accepted the explanation, and we played on from the point of the basket.

And I think your exact scenarios reflect the intent of the rule.

[Freddy]

The approved options for when officials get something wrong -- I'm thinkin' 2-10 here, to wit -- seem to be such that they inflict pain upon the crew such because the resolution isn't understood ("That's not fair!") and takes extraordinary 'splainin'. I wonder if by intent. Hmmmm.

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by LRZ

How about this -- apply the rule as written. .

Follow the rule book. The rule was written for a reason. if a rule needs to be changed, advocate for a change to the people who can change it but don't just make up your own rules.

Imagine the next week in the finals when this happens again and the refs apply the rule as written -- how crazy that coach is going to get because "it wasn't done that way last game".

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

Equipment issues (especially undershirts, same color as jersey, so simple, especially in a boys game).

[zm1283]

I'm just surprised to hear of how many middle school games in other parts of the country go without an AP arrow on the table. I worked a handful of middle school games this past fall before the high school season got started. I think every one of them had an arrow. And relatively well-trained adults at the table. Most, not all, schools here pay teachers or other staff to work the table for all games no matter the level.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I think that IAABO Officials in the Nutmeg State are requited to use the "whistle in the pocket" to keep track of the AP Arrow. Billy can give us all a complete explanation as to what is required.

Now for my two cents or my $50 lecture:

As an evaluator, if I see you using either the "rubber band on the wrist" or the "whistle in the pocket" method I am going to 'ding' you. All Officials in the Crew should remember how the Arrow was set at the start of the game. From that point on all Officials in the Crew should remember who is to should every succeeding AP Arrow. It is not very difficult.

Watch any Baseball game whether it is NFHS, NCAA, MiLB, or MLB; the only Umpire in the Crew that has a Ball/Strike Indicator is the PU; none of the BUs will have a Ball/Strike Indicator with them on the Field. Does that mean that the BUs do not know the Count and how many Outs there are? No! But we train ourselves to keep track of the information in our head at all times.

Just remember who gets the first AP Arrow and then remember who gets the next AP Arrow.

Billy: If I am evaluating in the Nutmeg State I won't 'ding" anyone but I will strongly suggest that Officials to learn to do it as I explained in the above paragraph. If an old geezer like me can remember the number of Outs and the Count in a Baseball game anyone can keep track of the AP Arrow in a Basketball game.

One side note: Watch any Softball game (NFHS, NCAA, USA Softball, and USSSA) and one will see the BUs carrying Ball/Strike Indicators on the Field because the Mechanics for the four major Softball codes require it. Mark, Jr., has intense dislike of doing it but at the college level at which he umpires he cannot be seen without it. I just carry a Ball/Strike Indicator in my right hand pocket so I can claim that I have one with me on the Field. The difference between Baseball and Softball just means that Baseball Umpires have better memories, LOL!

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

... or are you just happy to see me? (Apologies to Mae West).

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I think that IAABO Officials in the Nutmeg State are requited to use the "whistle in the pocket" to keep track of the AP Arrow. Billy can give us all a complete explanation as to what is required.

Not all of Connecticut, as far as I know, just my little comer of Connecticut.

"Required" is a strong word. "Encouraged" is a better word.

Immediately after the opening jump ball, immediately after the first possession of the game, officials puts their extra whistle in the pocket in the basket (not bench) direction of the next alternating possession arrow (half the time it's already in that pocket), as one faces the table (both referee and umpire).

Every time there's a held ball throwin, or an intermission throwin, the officials switch the whistles in their pockets.

After the buzzer sounds to end the second period, both officials meet in the center circle and the referee states (as both switch whistles in their pockets, "White (or whoever) ball to start the second half". Both approach the table, umpire gets the jackets, referee switches the alternating possession arrow at the table and states to the table, "White (or whoever) ball to start the second half. Come get everybody when there's three minutes left".

Rinse and repeat for overtimes.

We can't be "dinged" because it's an accepted mechanic in my little comer of Connecticut. In fact, if there's an alternating possession arrow problem and the officials don't have a whistle in their pockets, they are likely to be "dinged" a little, not too badly, a little spit and rubbing compound will take it out.