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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 10, 2020, 04:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
My far-flung hope is that some court case or legal action will blow up the current college camp paradigm.
Amen.

I remember 20 or so years ago I went to some of the D3 camps and thankfully I got that out of my system after a year or two. No feedback, no teaching....and this is for the privilege of working in a near-empty gym for about $160.....after driving 3-4 hours. No, thanks.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 10, 2020, 06:23pm
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When it comes to camps, one word comes to mind, "scam".
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 10, 2020, 10:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Why would the employees have to be full time? Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
Honestly, it's hard to imagine the reffing landscape where we aren't independent contractors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post

I do not think necessarily full-time officials solve this issue. I am just saying that the camp system I think undermines a true evaluation as some camps are not run to hire people, they are used to make money for the supervisor. I think it would be better if the big conferences got involved and spent money to invite people that could seriously work their level. But that would be a longer view of the role of your staff and that is not in the financial incentive for most conferences even though they make millions and billions of dollars in sports like football and basketball.
Oh I feel you there. I did a camp with Jr NBA for a D2 tryout, and that was some of the worst basketball I've ever officiated. Games were cancelled left and right. It was awful. But I've no doubt that the supervisor cashed out on it.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Amen.

I remember 20 or so years ago I went to some of the D3 camps and thankfully I got that out of my system after a year or two. No feedback, no teaching....and this is for the privilege of working in a near-empty gym for about $160.....after driving 3-4 hours. No, thanks.
20 years ago you got $160? I got $175 doing it for a year last year and said, what am I doing? That was the end of that.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
20 years ago you got $160? I got $175 doing it for a year last year and said, what am I doing? That was the end of that.


I think I may have adjusted a bit for the times. Maybe $140-ish then?


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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 02:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
… working in a near-empty gym for about $160 … after driving 3-4 hours.
… in winter weather.

Exactly why I decided not to step up and do college about 35 years ago.

Plus, back then, there were few high school games on Saturdays (never on Sundays here in Connecticut) and weekends (with the exception of some local Saturday morning recreation games) were family time for me after working high school and recreation games almost every weeknight.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 12, 2020 at 02:15pm.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 03:17pm
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Gyms are just as full for a lower level college game as I see in most of my high school games. Last night was a perfect example. I had a D3 game last week that had more fans watching the game.

It is all about where you are. But I would rather make $175-$200 for the same basic amount of time. And you see better ball. But to each his own.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 07:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Gyms are just as full for a lower level college game as I see in most of my high school games. Last night was a perfect example. I had a D3 game last week that had more fans watching the game.

It is all about where you are. But I would rather make $175-$200 for the same basic amount of time. And you see better ball. But to each his own.

Peace
The D3/NAIA games I had for the time that I was doing college just didn't have that many people. A decent Friday night HS game almost always had more.

You're in an area fortunate enough to have several college options in close proximity. That is not the case in a lot of places. A lot of college officials here are driving 3-5 hours (one way) to games on a regular basis. There are certainly local games, but there are only a handful as close as all the HS games.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:15pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The D3/NAIA games I had for the time that I was doing college just didn't have that many people. A decent Friday night HS game almost always had more.



You're in an area fortunate enough to have several college options in close proximity. That is not the case in a lot of places. A lot of college officials here are driving 3-5 hours (one way) to games on a regular basis. There are certainly local games, but there are only a handful as close as all the HS games.


Partner and I talking before tonight’s game. He recalled one day years ago when he had four youth games and then a varsity game on a Saturday. Total fees were $200.

Then Mr. College Assignor calls. “Need you tonight for a men’s game at 8pm.” Gave all his local games back to the disdain of the local assignors. Four hours away plus had to pick up partners along the way. Oh, and had to be there two hours early for college. So he left a little after noon, and got back at 2am. Fee = $175.

His local assignments suffered from lack of dependability thereafter. Next time Mr. College Assignor called with a last minute assignment, he said “no.”

That was the last year he worked college. He doesn’t regret it one bit.


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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
...
His local assignments suffered from lack of dependability thereafter. Next time Mr. College Assignor called with a last minute assignment, he said “no.”

That was the last year he worked college. He doesn’t regret it one bit.


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Yeah, that will get you dropped. If you are a college ref and want to stay a college ref, then there are certain expectations. Saying no because of rec or HS games is not one of them.





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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Partner and I talking before tonight’s game. He recalled one day years ago when he had four youth games and then a varsity game on a Saturday. Total fees were $200.

Then Mr. College Assignor calls. “Need you tonight for a men’s game at 8pm.” Gave all his local games back to the disdain of the local assignors. Four hours away plus had to pick up partners along the way. Oh, and had to be there two hours early for college. So he left a little after noon, and got back at 2am. Fee = $175.

His local assignments suffered from lack of dependability thereafter. Next time Mr. College Assignor called with a last minute assignment, he said “no.”

That was the last year he worked college. He doesn’t regret it one bit.
If you are working for someone who won't let you say no to a day-of assignment, you are working for a bad assignor.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 11:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Partner and I talking before tonight’s game. He recalled one day years ago when he had four youth games and then a varsity game on a Saturday. Total fees were $200.

Then Mr. College Assignor calls. “Need you tonight for a men’s game at 8pm.” Gave all his local games back to the disdain of the local assignors. Four hours away plus had to pick up partners along the way. Oh, and had to be there two hours early for college. So he left a little after noon, and got back at 2am. Fee = $175.

His local assignments suffered from lack of dependability thereafter. Next time Mr. College Assignor called with a last minute assignment, he said “no.”

That was the last year he worked college. He doesn’t regret it one bit.


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Aren't you supposed to be there 90 minutes before tip-off for a college game? Maybe the rules were different back then.

It would be interesting to see if the lawsuit makes college evaluators and observers be more transparent with their records. Dumping old officials in favor of young officials might seem suspicious, especially with good evaluation reports (according to the officials), unless there is good evidence in the reports that the old officials can't cut it anymore.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Yeah, that will get you dropped. If you are a college ref and want to stay a college ref, then that are certain expectations. Saying no because of rec or HS games is not one of them.





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Is that because college assigners have a similar mindset when it comes to D1 assigners taking officials from lower-level assigners on the day of?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The D3/NAIA games I had for the time that I was doing college just didn't have that many people. A decent Friday night HS game almost always had more.

You're in an area fortunate enough to have several college options in close proximity. That is not the case in a lot of places. A lot of college officials here are driving 3-5 hours (one way) to games on a regular basis. There are certainly local games, but there are only a handful as close as all the HS games.
All my games are not close. I have a 3-hour trip tomorrow as an example. I am going 2 states away. But again that does not bother me, I will make way more than I will work any high school game (and more than the range I gave earlier). Local high school games have bigger headaches and in many cases no bigger crowds.

Again it is what you value. I have been working high school games for a long time and had some fun, but I like to be challenged and working a ton of high school games all the time is not as challenging. The crowds used to be a draw, but not anymore.

Peace
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:08am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
If you are working for someone who won't let you say no to a day-of assignment, you are working for a bad assignor.
Well, kind of. I know we should tell the truth, but it is not like you have to tell the truth all the time when asked or keep your calendar up so this becomes less of an issue. If he wanted to work the youth games, just block them off at least if you have an online system that is being used. Your availability is not everyone's business anyway. All they need to know is you can work or not.

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