Shoot at wrong basket/double dribble

[Amesman]

Had a player grab a defensive rebound, shoot at the wrong goal, miss, have a teammate rebound and then head toward the correct goal. This was small-school varsity, believe it or not, but everybody's probably seen similar if they've been around long enough or do kid ball.

Creative minds got to wondering: What if he had rebounded his own miss at the wrong goal and started dribbling toward the proper front court? How would this compare to a player taking an inbounded pass after a made basket, throwing it against the opponent's backboard (his first dribble), catching it and then getting called for double dribble when he starts dribbling toward the front court?

[BillyMac]

You are correct. It's an illegal (double) dribble.

Throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard is considered to be a dribble.

And yes, if one officiates long enough one will see this happen, I just had one in a middle school girls game this past week.

This can get even more exciting if an opponent fouls the "thrower".

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who
bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the
floor once or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball
touches a player’s own backboard.

Basketball Rules Fundamentals
19. A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated
the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches
the thrower’s backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

4.15.1 SITUATION C: A1 attempts a pass to A2 during pressing action in A’s backcourt. The ball hits B’s backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and: (a) passes the ball to A2; or (b) starts a dribble. RULING: The pass against B’s backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In (a), the pass is legal action. In (b), it is a violation for a second dribble. (4-4-5; 9-5)

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent’s backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent’s backboard or an
official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

[LRZ]

What if the ball at the wrong basket hits, not the backboard, but the rim?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

What if the ball at the wrong basket hits, not the backboard, but the rim?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by LRZ

What if the ball at the wrong basket hits, not the backboard, but the rim?

The it's not the same as "the ball hitting the floor" (or whatever the specific rule wording is). Treat it as "B tosses the ball in the air and retrieves it" with the same emphasis on moving the pivot foot, etc.

and, it's the same if the ball just hits the net, because the net is part of the basket.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The it's not the same as "the ball hitting the floor" (or whatever the specific rule wording is). Treat it as "B tosses the ball in the air and retrieves it" with the same emphasis on moving the pivot foot, etc.

"same as touching the floor inbounds"

So then we're talking about a travel rather than an illegal (double) dribble.

4.44.3 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Traveling violation in (b). In (b), since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by LRZ

What if the ball at the wrong basket hits, not the backboard, but the rim?

Yes, this is what I was getting at. Just realized I wrote the OP lamely. The backboard carom was known for sure. Hitting just the rim (or both rim and backboard) was the intent of the question. Thanks.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Yes, this is what I was getting at. Just realized I wrote the OP lamely. The backboard carom was known for sure. Hitting just the rim (or both rim and backboard) was the intent of the question. Thanks.

In the case of throwing, running, and catching, the player moves. Pretend A1 throws the ball, hits the opponent's rim, and the ball rebounds directly back to A1. Whattaya got?

(this thread also illustrates a dribble that does not fit the definition of a dribble. Ergo, we do not need to solely rely on definitions as so many of us frequently do)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

and, it's the same if the ball just hits the net, because the net is part of the basket.

You have just a little bit of mischievousness in you, sir! 😅

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bucky

(this thread also illustrates a dribble that does not fit the definition of a dribble. Ergo, we do not need to solely rely on definitions as so many of us frequently do)

Which would make it an illegal dribble. Using the definitions works perfectly here.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

In the case of throwing, running, and catching, the player moves. Pretend A1 throws the ball, hits the opponent's rim, and the ball rebounds directly back to A1. Whattaya got?

A1 didn't move during this? Then it's nothing, the same as if A1 just tossed the ball in the air without moving.

(this thread also illustrates a dribble that does not fit the definition of a dribble. Ergo, we do not need to solely rely on definitions as so many of us frequently do)

I'm confused -- what part of the definitions doesn't fit here?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Pretend A1 throws the ball, hits the opponent's rim, and the ball rebounds directly back to A1. Whattaya got?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 didn't move during this? Then it's nothing, the same as if A1 just tossed the ball in the air without moving.

Agree.

4.44.3 SITUATION C: A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; RULING: Legal.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 didn't move during this? Then it's nothing, the same as if A1 just tossed the ball in the air without moving.

I'm confused -- what part of the definitions doesn't fit here?

A1, in the BC, dribbles and stops, picking up his dribble. A1 throws the ball, which hits the opponent's rim and returns directly back to A1 who catches it. How do you rule?

My "definitions" comments relates to the ball hitting the opponent's backboard. The definition of a dribble excludes hitting the opponent's backboard (and official). The case book indicates that it is a dribble. If someone were to rely solely on the definition of a dribble from the rule book, then hitting the opponent's backboard would not be a dribble.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

A1, in the BC, dribbles and stops, picking up his dribble. A1 throws the ball, which hits the opponent's rim and returns directly back to A1 who catches it. How do you rule?

I've got nothing.

The definition of a dribble excludes hitting the opponent's backboard (and official).

Really? I'll have to look, but that isn't my understanding.

Are you (or am I) mixing up "opponent's basket" and "own basket"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The definition of a dribble excludes hitting the opponent's backboard (and official)

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? I'll have to look, but that isn't my understanding. Are you mixing up "opponent's basket" and "own basket"

Basketball Rules Fundamentals
19. A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated
the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches
the thrower’s backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

4-5-1: A team’s own basket is the one into which its players try to
throw or tap the ball.

4-15: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who
bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the
floor once or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball
touches a player’s own backboard.

Unlike other sports where teams defend their "goal" (football, ice hockey, soccer, etc.), in basketball teams defend their opponent's "goal" and try to score in their "goal".

Perhaps Dr. Naismith's only mistake (other then inventing the jump ball).

Yeah Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., you heard me correctly. I said it. I know that James was one of your best friends, but the truth is the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.