Speaking captain?

[rawhi1]

I can't find it anywhere in the officials manual, but is it mandatory to pick one speaking captain of a team that has two or more captains in the meeting with the referee.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by rawhi1

I can't find it anywhere in the officials manual, but is it mandatory to pick one speaking captain of a team that has two or more captains in the meeting with the referee.

Ain't no such thing as a "Speaking Captain", though it is a chronically habitual thing many say. Kinda like, "Tonight we're playing the black line all the way around," "Play defense with your feet", etc. Ugh.
3-1-1 says, "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain."
Ergo, each team shall have no more than one captain. Only one captain shall each team designate. Captains, of which each team has one, will be singular in nature respective to each team, such number never constituting more than two total for both teams. Divide the number two by the number of teams involved and then shall the product be the number of captains each team shall have, which is one. Sorry....
Ceremonially, any number of players may attend the pregame meeting. Heck, make it a big, warm-and-fuzzy-feeling Kum Ba Ya moment and have all the players attend, that's ok. But it's up to you to ask, "Which of you is the captain?"
I'll leave it to you to identify the designated privileges and duties ascribed to the two captains. That's found elsewhere in the rules book.

[BillyMac]

2-7-1: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This
includes: Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of
the game.

3-1-1: Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain.

3-1-2: The captain is the representative of his/her team and may
address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential
information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an
official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court.

3-3-E: A captain may request a defensive match-up if three or more
substitutes from the same team enter during an opportunity to
substitute.

8-2: The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted
by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury
or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no
substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the
throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.

8-3: The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by
any player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or
designated starter. The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s).

For us IAABO guys, IAABO made it a lot easier to avoid the, "Who's the speaking captain? What's your number (if hidden by a warmup jersey)? Are you starting?", in the pregame coaches/captains conference with a mechanics change last season:

2018-2019 IAABO Significant Manual Revisions:
The tossing official on the jump ball no longer checks for readiness with the captains.

I haven't had a request for a defensive match-up in, literally, decades, and most of the guys here in my little corner of Connecticut will answer questions from any player if done in a courteous manner.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2-7-1: The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This
includes: Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of
the game.

3-1-1: Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain.

3-1-2: The captain is the representative of his/her team and may
address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential
information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an
official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court.

3-3-E: A captain may request a defensive match-up if three or more
substitutes from the same team enter during an opportunity to
substitute.

8-2: The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted
by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury
or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no
substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the
throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.

8-3: The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by
any player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or
designated starter. The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s).

For us IAABO guys, IAABO made it a lot easier to avoid the, "Who's the speaking captain? What's your number (if hidden by a warmup jersey)? Are you starting?", in the pregame coaches/captains conference with a mechanics change last season:

2018-2019 IAABO Significant Manual Revisions:
The tossing official on the jump ball no longer checks for readiness with the captains.

I haven't had a request for a defensive match-up in, literally, decades, and most of the guys here in my little corner of Connecticut will answer questions from any player if done in a courteous manner.

I am late in joining the party but it is time for a history lesson.

Yes, the Rules do not specify a "speaking captain".

NFHS R3-S1-A1 and NCAA Men's R3-S2-A1 (NCAA Women's Rules are not germane to this history lesson) are derived from NBC R3-S1-A1 which stated: "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain."

NFHS: "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain."

NCAA Men's: "At the start of the game, each team shall consist of five players, one of whom shall be the captain."


Also:

NFHS R3-S1-A2 (Which is derived from NBC Rule 3.): "The captain is the representative of his/her team and may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court."

NCAA Men's R3-S3-A1 (The first sentence is derived from NBC Rule 3 and the second sentence was added later by the NCAA Men's Rules Committee.): "The captain is a team member who may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, when it is done in a courteous manner. Dialogue between coaches and officials should be kept to a minimum."


From this we can see that the position of Coach or Head Coach were not considered part of the Team nor a Representative of the Team. And, despite the fact that we are constantly being told to have good communication skills with HCs. We are also told to keep dialogue with Coaches to a minimum because Captains are our primary contact point for communication. This is because historically Coaches could have very little communication with their Players on the Court. Until the late 1940s or early 1950s when there was a Team TO the five Players had to remain on the Court and could not communicate with their HC. The HC had to send in information through Substitutes. The game had changed dramatically in the last 70 years or so.

Hence it really is good to know who is a Team's "speaking captain". He/she is the one that really is in control of the entire Team from all the Players on the Court as well as everyone on the Bench.

I am not saying that we should never communicate with HCs. The vast majority of HCs want could communication between the Game Officials and themselves, but the historical precedent is there to utilize the Captain to take care of problem HCs. At the Captains' Meeting I inform the Captains that they are in charge of the Teams including everyone on the Bench, including the HC. Does that mean I will not communicate with the HC, absolutely not. When we have problems with Players or Bench Personnel I am going to be communicating with the HC 99% of the time. But that 1% of the time, the Captain can be very useful.

My case in point (for those who have heard this story before you can skip to the end, ):

1994 Michigan AAU Girls' 14U Championship Game (the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place team automatically qualify for the National Championship Tournament): The HC for Team B was chirping from the start of the game and it seem to be escalating. We are midway through the 1st Half and B1 (the Captain) is dribbling the Ball up the Court in the Back Court. He HC is really starting to get on my nerves and I softly tell her that she needs to get her HC's conduct under control. Without stopping her dribble she yells in voice loud enough for everyone in the gym to hear: "Dad! Shut up! You are embarrassing me!" 1) I did not know they were father and daughter. 2)Her father could not find a hole deep enough to climb in. 3) We did not hear anymore complaining about the officiating from him the rest of the game.

Lesson to be learned: Use Captains to your advantage.

So endth today's history lesson.

MTD, Sr.

[SC Official]

I can objectively say that 99% of the time I don't remember who the captains are once the meeting is over. And no way in hell do I remember the "speaking captain."

In the rare instance I do remember, I can recall more than one instance where a captain was putting s*it in the game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I can objectively say that 99% of the time I don't remember who the captains are once the meeting is over. And no way in hell do I remember the "speaking captain."

In the rare instance I do remember, I can recall more than one instance where a captain was putting s*it in the game.

I am 68 years old and I can remember two numbers.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I can objectively say that 99% of the time I don't remember who the captains are once the meeting is over. And no way in hell do I remember the "speaking captain."

In the rare instance I do remember, I can recall more than one instance where a captain was putting s*it in the game.

So now you have something to work on.

(and I'm not implying I don't)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Ergo, each team shall have no more than one captain. Only one captain shall each team designate. Captains, of which each team has one, will be singular in nature respective to each team, such number never constituting more than two total for both teams. Divide the number two by the number of teams involved and then shall the product be the number of captains each team shall have, which is one.

I'm guessing that Freddy stayed up late last night and watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Divide the number two by the number of teams involved and then shall the product be the number of captains each team shall have ...

The answer to a division problem is a quotient. The answer to a multiplication problem is a product.

I owe an apology to Mr. Madden, my Algebra II teacher in high school. I always complained to him, "When will I ever need this in real life".

Who knew at the time that I would need it to yank Freddy's chain.

And I always wondered why those two trains never collided.

[bas2456]

It irks me a little bit when, as the R, I ask my partner if he has anything to add and he asks for speaking captains.

[LRZ]

As the R, I do the brief, mandatory sportsmanship thing that PIAA requires. As a courtesy to my partner, I then always ask if he/she has anything to add. Last week, a partner went into the whole "black line all around, supports are out of play, shirts tucked in, get 'em out promptly after TOs, whistle stops play, speaking captains," blah blah blah.

I may have to rethink my approach.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bas2456

It irks me a little bit when, as the R, I ask my partner if he has anything to add and he asks for speaking captains.

Originally Posted by LRZ

As a courtesy to my partner, I then always ask if he/she has anything to add. Last week, a partner went into the whole "black line all around, supports are out of play, shirts tucked in, get 'em out promptly after TOs, whistle stops play, speaking captains," blah blah blah.

Of course, we know exactly who to blame in both of these situations.

"The things I did not say never hurt me." (Calvin Coolidge)

“Never miss a good chance to shut up.” (Will Rogers)

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by rawhi1

I can't find it anywhere in the officials manual, but is it mandatory to pick one speaking captain of a team that has two or more captains in the meeting with the referee.

Nope. It is the absolute dumbest thing we do at the already dumb meeting with 2-6 dudes who never listen and don’t share your information with their teammates.

Really the only reason we do it is to give the impression to the building that we’re talking about something meaningful. As for me, I try to say something original and/or funny every time I’m the R and usually it has absolutely nothing to do with basketball. If we gotta huddle in that circle, I figure I might as well introduce myself as a normal human being instead of a domineering robot. Helps get the players on our side and might pay dividends later when the tension rises.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MattReferee]

This is certainly a direct extension of crew working game and should be “to each their own” implemented with purpose... When “R” I keep it short : sportsmanship and stop play on the whistle “C” relay to coach when asking for timeouts inform crew 30/Full

[ODog]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It is the absolute dumbest thing we do at the already dumb meeting ...

Really the only reason we do it is to give the impression to the building that we’re talking about something meaningful ...

This and this.

I am still FLOORED any time an official I respect asks for speaking captains. I feel so let down.