Flop

[Raymond]

Flopping includes, as enforced by NCAA Men's rules, head bobbing and jump shooters throwing themselves to the ground. Those don't involve contact. Those are faking being fouled.

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[Pantherdreams]

My simple but convoluted 3 cents on flopping:

I find the language faking being fouled awkward phrasing. So it leads me down a path many of you may see as splitting hairs.

A foul is contact the referee judges to meet the level of a foul. A player can't fake a judgement, they can fake contact. So players can't fake being fouled ever only fake being contacted. WIth that in mind IMO we should only be calling technicals for faking being fouled if and when they are faking contact that didn't actually occur.

NOW (before the pitch forks come out) . . .

They can also exaggerate or and overreact to contact. If we want to give a technical for that, for me I would have to have it raise to a theatrical level that was somehow leading to intentionally inciting the crowd or blatantly violating the spirit of the game. Someone choosing to fall over or toss their head back when I wouldn't have fallen over or tossed my head back or I don't think they should doesn't meet that bar for me.

If they want to engage in theatrics or controlled falls that's on them. If after they engage in the theatrics and the respond badly to not getting their desired called I have no problem with Ting up that bad behaviour or complaint.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

My simple but convoluted 3 cents on flopping:

I find the language faking being fouled awkward phrasing. So it leads me down a path many of you may see as splitting hairs.

A foul is contact the referee judges to meet the level of a foul. A player can't fake a judgement, they can fake contact. So players can't fake being fouled ever only fake being contacted. WIth that in mind IMO we should only be calling technicals for faking being fouled if and when they are faking contact that didn't actually occur.

....

It may be awkward phrasing, but NCAA-Men's has put out clear guidance through training videos and rules clinics as to what types of plays and actions fall into that category. It is pretty easy for NCAA-Men's officials to adjudicate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It may be awkward phrasing, but NCAA-Men's has put out clear guidance through training videos and rules clinics as to what types of plays and actions fall into that category. It is pretty easy for NCAA-Men's officials to adjudicate.

I agree but it took all that video and explanation of the standard. The NF has not made such a standard for what would result in a T if you were to call one. Most plays involve some kind of contact. The problem is the NF rule does not say the standard involves contact or not. That is one reason I have never called a T for this and probably never will until they give some guidance more than what we have now.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It may be awkward phrasing, but NCAA-Men's has put out clear guidance through training videos and rules clinics as to what types of plays and actions fall into that category. It is pretty easy for NCAA-Men's officials to adjudicate.

I agree rule sets and officials/associations do a great job of clarifying what they mean. I just personally don't understand phrasing a rule in a way that makes it an impossibility. We all know what they want.

There are enough rules dealing with unsporting behaviour without me trying to decide if a kid fell because they are un coordinated, have no core strength, are a drama major, are hella soft and fall down to avoid getting knocked hard . . . let them lay there and deal with the fall out if I the contact didn't/shouldn't have caused it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... we should only be calling technicals for faking being fouled if and when they are faking contact that didn't actually occur.

Saw this last night as I was observing my friends officiate a state semifinal game. May be the first time any of us saw a 100% contact-free "flop". Player drove down the lane toward a defensive player legally holding his spot. Driving player pulled up at the last split second to go vertical and shoot a soft jump shot. Absolutely no contact. Defensive player, anticipating the contact, leaned back and then feel backward on his butt. Good basket. No call.

The four of us discussed this play after the game. With our many combined years of playing basketball, watching basketball, and officiating basketball, we all agreed that none of us wanted to be the first official in Connecticut to make a "flop" call.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Saw this last night as I was observing my friends officiate a state semifinal game. May be the first time any of us saw a 100% contact-free "flop". Player drove down the lane toward a defensive player legally holding his spot. Driving player pulled up at the last split second to go vertical and shoot a soft jump shot. Absolutely no contact. Defensive player, anticipating the contact, leaned back and then feel backward on his butt. Good basket. No call.

The four of us discussed this play after the game. With our many combined years of playing basketball, watching basketball, and officiating basketball, we all agreed that none of us wanted to be the first official in Connecticut to make a "flop" call.

The L (I assume it was the L that was the primary for this play.) was correct in not accessing a TF for "faking being fouled". For our brothers and sisters who are not familiar with my position, reacting to possible conact is: 1) human nature and 2) not "faking being fouled". If one wants to see athletes who are adept at faking being fouled, watch soccer players, especially professional soccer players.

MTD, Sr.

[Kansas Ref]

All the posts in this thread do indicate the high frequency of occurrence, the apparent injury risk, and the fundamentally unsporting-ness of the "flop". It is for these reasons that i predict that the " get up" mechanical coupled with it's documented bench warning will trickle down to implementation at the NF level.

@ MTD: !o! @ soccer players exceptional display of "flops".