End of Game Timing Situation

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Whether this still applies or not? ... 2004-05 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations ... By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official’s signal is heard and/or seen clearly. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. (5-10-1)

"Lag time" ended in 2006-07, when "exact time" was added to the rule.

5-10-1:The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to
start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information
relative to the time involved. The exact time observed by the official may
be placed on the clock.

COMMENTS ON THE 2006-07 RULES REVISIONS

LAG TIME ELIMINATED (5-10-1): This change eliminates the need for lag time or reaction time on the part of the clock operator. The referee may put the exact time observed by an official back on the game clock. The committee felt that with new clock technology and the ability to observe tenths of a second, when an official has definite knowledge relative to the time involved, he/she should have the ability to put the correct time on the game clock.

Can anybody cite the old "lag time" rule and/or interpretation, I can't find it, other than to cite its elimination?

[Indianaref]

Thanks Billy!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can anybody cite the old "lag time" rule and/or interpretation, I can't find it, other than to cite its elimination?

Is it possible that the only interpretation of "lag time" is cited in Indianaref's citation, 2004-05 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 8?

There must be earlier rules or interpretations?

Looked twice, can't find any.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is it possible that the only interpretation of "lag time" is cited in Indianaref's citation, 2004-05 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 8? There must be earlier rules or interpretations?

2004-05 Casebook: 5.10.1.B "Reaction time"

Was this ever a rule?

Did I dream this?

This is my quest,
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless,
No matter how far.
(The Impossible Dream)

How about a little help from Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

[bucky]

What level was this? I find it difficult to believe that anyone, less than a professional, could get off a turnaround 3-point jumper in .8 seconds.

Anyway...The ref who was told about calling the TO should have been prepared to immediately blow his whistle on the defensive rebound and immediately look at the clock in order to have direct knowledge of time. That same official, who knew what was to happen, would have prevented all of the other delays/discussions/etc. and the crew would have looked great at such a crucial time.

[so cal lurker]

I'm curious. Can the coach pre-ask for that TO, or does he have to actually ask once his team has possession?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Can the coach pre-ask for that TO, or does he have to actually ask once his team has possession?

We've discussed this on the Forum in the past.

It is my belief that while a pre-request may get our attention to watch for the subsequent actual request, the coach actually has to follow through with an actual oral or visual request for a time-out.

5-8-3: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an
official: Grants and signals a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual
request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured
player(s), or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a
substitute(s) is available and required.

My procedure: "Coach, you still have to request it. I'll be watching".

As usual, check your local listings.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I'm curious. Can the coach pre-ask for that TO, or does he have to actually ask once his team has possession?

These requests always come with a prerequisite, i.e.: "if we make the free throw I want a time-out", "I want time-out when we get the rebound", etc. If the prerequisite occurs, and nothing else, I go ahead and honor the request.

This is one of those "when in Rome" or "do what's comfortable for you" situations.

[BillyMac]

I often like to scrutinize rules by looking at extremes.

Pregame coaches/captains conference: "Hey BillyMac, I'm going to want a thirty second timeout at the first dead ball after the two minute mark of the first period". BillyMac, "Sure coach, let me write that down."

Also extreme: Team A has the ball in their frontcourt. Team A coach, "Hey BillyMac, I want a sixty second timeout after we score". Team A doesn't' score. Team B gets a rebound and moves upcourt where they shoot and miss. Team A gets a rebound, moves upcourt where they score. BillyMac: "Sixty second timeout granted to Team A". Team A coach, "No, I wanted it back then". BillyMac: "You said you wanted a sixty second timeout after you scored, and you just scored".

Or: Team A has the ball in their frontcourt. Team A coach, "Hey BillyMac, I want a sixty second timeout after we score". Team A doesn't score. Team B gets a rebound and moves upcourt where they shoot and miss. Team A gets a rebound, moves upcourt where they score. No time out is orally or visually requested, nor is one granted. Team B inbounds the ball, easily breaks the hastily set up full court press, and moves upcourt. Team A coach, "Hey BillyMac, I said I wanted a sixty second timeout after we scored, and we just scored. What's the story?".

I'm not a big fan of taking time out reservations in advance, just walk-in timeouts.

But If a coach preorders (sorry, mixed metaphors), I will pay close attention to get his timeout granted in a timely manner.

Again, when in Rome.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I'm curious. Can the coach pre-ask for that TO, or does he have to actually ask once his team has possession?

This is where philosophy comes into play. I do honor them now if it is a made basket or something like that. Otherwise I tell them to ask anyway. Because I do not want to be ultra concentrating on a rebound or some other action. A made basket is a little more defined and can often easier to judge. A rebound might not result in an immediate possession of the ball.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bucky

What level was this? I find it difficult to believe that anyone, less than a professional, could get off a turnaround 3-point jumper in .8 seconds.

Anyway...The ref who was told about calling the TO should have been prepared to immediately blow his whistle on the defensive rebound and immediately look at the clock in order to have direct knowledge of time. That same official, who knew what was to happen, would have prevented all of the other delays/discussions/etc. and the crew would have looked great at such a crucial time.

Boys varsity.