Jump ball picked up by jumper

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

ilyazhito: I'm betting that you don't work a lot of middle school girls games.

I work all levels, including middle school girls. Remembering which way the arrow goes can be a mess if there are multiple held balls in a quarter, especially in quick succession. The same reasoning applies to rec games also. This is why I propose to abolish the AP arrow in favor of jump balls throughout the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I work all levels, including middle school girls. Remembering which way the arrow goes can be a mess if there are multiple held balls in a quarter, especially in quick succession. The same reasoning applies to rec games also. This is why I propose to abolish the AP arrow in favor of jump balls throughout the game.

You work the table too? Why do you have to remember anything if you have a table crew and check that the arrow gets switched when the AP throwin is done?

[Robert Goodman]

The points in favor of the jump ball are that it's a fun and interesting individual and team skill for the players, and got the ball into play in a way that was no more prone to rough play than other aspects of the game are.

The point against was that it was hard to administer fairly. It's enough that the players need ball skills, should the officials have to have them too?

(A point that could be taken either against or in favor was that some players were much better at it than others, and that it was lopsided when a tie ball occurred between players of much different heights. These are the sorts of considerations that are as arguable as any other design feature of the game.)

Australian football in recent years has shown dissatisfaction with similar procedures. They used to have an official bounce the (oblong) ball hard straight down against the ground, and lately have gone to something looking more like a jump ball. They used to have an official throw the ball in backwards over his head into the field to resume play from out of bounds; I forgot what they're doing instead of that now.

Speedball uses a kickoff to start periods, but as far as I know still uses a jump ball to resolve tie balls. As far as I know, team handball has no similar procedure.

[ilyazhito]

Camron, I cannot rely on the table crew to do things correctly, especially below the varsity level. There have been times where either the table does not keep the AP arrow, or they do not change the arrow properly. Because I need to check that the table is doing things correctly, I need to remember the AP sequence myself. Jump balls would give officials as well as the table 1 less headache to worry about. Coaches then won't be able to claim that "the refs gave the wrong team the ball" when they aren't paying attention.

In NBA mechanics, the official with the best toss administers all jump balls, so there should be no issues with bad tosses affecting the jump ball result. NFHS and NCAA rules can adopt something similar if jump balls outside the center circle get reintroduced. On the off-chance that the ball is tossed badly, the tableside non-tossing official can call the toss back, and the toss will be repeated.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... below the varsity level. There have been times where either the table does not keep the AP arrow.

Everyone on my local board has been strongly encouraged to keep an extra whistle in our pockets and switch it with the arrow. We've been doing this since 1985 (post ancient times). We teach our rookie officials this procedure. We use this as a backup in our high school varsity games.

Middle schools often don't have a possession arrow at the table, and almost never keep the alternating possession in the scorebook, so this procedure becomes quite important. Sure, we could just memorize who gets the next arrow, but it's just as easy to switch the whistle in our pocket. After doing this for thirty-five years, it's become automatic, deeply ingrained, second nature.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Camron, I cannot rely on the table crew to do things correctly, especially below the varsity level. There have been times where either the table does not keep the AP arrow, or they do not change the arrow properly. Because I need to check that the table is doing things correctly, I need to remember the AP sequence myself. Jump balls would give officials as well as the table 1 less headache to worry about. Coaches then won't be able to claim that "the refs gave the wrong team the ball" when they aren't paying attention.

That is why I said you check that they switch it once the AP throwin is done. If they don't switch it, stop the game and have them switch it. If you do that, you don't need to remember what it was. By RULE, the arrow is kept at the table. Get something there (it doesn't have to be a formal light-up arrow), get in the habit of managing it.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If they don't switch it, stop the game and have them switch it.

Protip: never stop the game to fix the arrow. Do it at the next dead ball. The best refs find ways to fix things (clock, arrow, fouls, etc) without anyone noticing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Protip: never stop the game to fix the arrow. Do it at the next dead ball. The best refs find ways to fix things (clock, arrow, fouls, etc) without anyone noticing.

Maybe. I try to get it switched without stopping the game by telling the table in flight, but I'm not waiting 3-4 minutes to get it fixed if I can't get them to fix it in flight.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

... never stop the game to fix the arrow. Do it at the next dead ball. The best refs find ways to fix things (clock, arrow, fouls, etc) without anyone noticing.

I find a way to fix the arrow without stopping the game and with everybody noticing, "CHANGE THE ARROW".

Capitals and bold means loud, right?

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I find a way to fix the arrow without stopping the game and with everybody noticing, "CHANGE THE ARROW".

Capitals and bold means loud, right?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

In NBA mechanics, the official with the best toss administers all jump balls, so there should be no issues with bad tosses affecting the jump ball result.

This is absolutely the most ludicrous assertion you have ever written.

Aren't you aware of the traditional game of 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' that takes place in the NBA pregame meeting that determines who has the honor of tossing for jump balls?