Jump ball picked up by jumper

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by genetoy71

NFHS Rules. Team A and Team B lined up for jump ball to start game. R tosses ball. Jumpers for each team jump and touch ball. Ball comes down, hits floor within the restraining circle and is picked up by jumper for Team A. R blows whistle and awards throw-in at division line to Team B, possession arrow to Team A.

1) Should R have blown whistle or let play continue?
2) Does it make a difference if ball hit the floor within the restraining circle or outside of it after being touched by the jumpers before one of the jumpers can pick it up?

1) Let play continue.
2) No difference.

6-3-8: The jump ball and the restrictions ... end when the
touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a
basket or backboard.

No more jump balls, and shut up Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) Let play continue.
2) No difference.

6-3-8: The jump ball and the restrictions ... end when the
touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a
basket or backboard.

No more jump balls, and shut up Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

What did I do?

You nailed it Billy.

MTD, Sr.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No more jump balls, and shut up Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If we got rid of the possession arrow, and went back to jump balls the way God intended, then the refs would know these rules!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

If we got rid of the possession arrow, and went back to jump balls the way God intended, then the refs would know these rules!

Agree.

Back in ancient times every official knew all the permutations of the jump ball rules, before the toss, after the toss, jumpers, nonjumpers on the circle, non jumpers off the circle, backwards, forwards, inside out, and upside down. Officials had to know these jump ball restrictions because in a some games you could have dozens of jump balls, in three different jump ball circles, in addition to the jump ball to start the game, each period, and any overtime.

Officials, players, and coaches all knew the jump ball rules, some coaches even had different jump ball plays for each of the three jump ball circles depending on whether one expected to win or lose the jump ball.

Now that we average 1.02 jump balls per game, many officials (players and coaches) don't know the rules as well as we knew them back in ancient times.

The alternating possession arrow was invented by some genius for a good reason, so let's get rid of all jump balls, give the ball to the visitors to start the game, and use the possession arrow for the rest of the game, including overtimes.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. only wants to keep jump balls because he actually gave the idea for jump balls to his best friend, Jimmy Naismith, back 1891. It's true. It's true.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The alternating possession arrow was invented by some genius for a good reason, so let's get rid of all jump balls, give the ball to the visitors to start the game, and use the possession arrow for the rest of the game, including overtimes.

So far as I know, its the only playground rule ever broadly adopted. Perhaps we should go all the way with the playground rules, and have a player from one team shoot for the ball from the top of the key. And then when there is the first held ball, whichever team calls "first" first, gets the first alternating possession . . .

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... let's get rid of all jump balls, give the ball to the visitors to start the game, and use the possession arrow for the rest of the game, including overtimes.

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

So far as I know, its the only playground rule ever broadly adopted ...

Could somebody please help me down from my soap box. It's very high and I'm not quite as steady as I used to be. And I'm starting to get dizzy.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

So far as I know, its the only playground rule ever broadly adopted. Perhaps we should go all the way with the playground rules,

If you really did that, you'd shoot fingers for it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If you really did that, you'd shoot fingers for it.

That's what we did.

Once, twice, three, shoot.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

If we got rid of the possession arrow, and went back to jump balls the way God intended, then the refs would know these rules!

Amen. Abolish the AP arrow, and do jump balls throughout the game. NFHS and NCAA managed fine for so many years without the alternating possession arrow,and the NBA still uses jump balls for all cases of disputed possession.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Amen. Abolish the AP arrow, and do jump balls throughout the game.

ilyazhito: I'm betting that you don't work a lot of middle school girls games.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... girls games ... don't want 200 jump balls tonight ...

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

ilyazhito: I'm betting that you don't work a lot of middle school girls games.

Ok, you can keep it for those....

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

ilyazhito: I'm betting that you don't work a lot of middle school girls games.

I work all levels, including middle school girls. Remembering which way the arrow goes can be a mess if there are multiple held balls in a quarter, especially in quick succession. The same reasoning applies to rec games also. This is why I propose to abolish the AP arrow in favor of jump balls throughout the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I work all levels, including middle school girls. Remembering which way the arrow goes can be a mess if there are multiple held balls in a quarter, especially in quick succession. The same reasoning applies to rec games also. This is why I propose to abolish the AP arrow in favor of jump balls throughout the game.

You work the table too? Why do you have to remember anything if you have a table crew and check that the arrow gets switched when the AP throwin is done?

[Robert Goodman]

The points in favor of the jump ball are that it's a fun and interesting individual and team skill for the players, and got the ball into play in a way that was no more prone to rough play than other aspects of the game are.

The point against was that it was hard to administer fairly. It's enough that the players need ball skills, should the officials have to have them too?

(A point that could be taken either against or in favor was that some players were much better at it than others, and that it was lopsided when a tie ball occurred between players of much different heights. These are the sorts of considerations that are as arguable as any other design feature of the game.)

Australian football in recent years has shown dissatisfaction with similar procedures. They used to have an official bounce the (oblong) ball hard straight down against the ground, and lately have gone to something looking more like a jump ball. They used to have an official throw the ball in backwards over his head into the field to resume play from out of bounds; I forgot what they're doing instead of that now.

Speedball uses a kickoff to start periods, but as far as I know still uses a jump ball to resolve tie balls. As far as I know, team handball has no similar procedure.

[ilyazhito]

Camron, I cannot rely on the table crew to do things correctly, especially below the varsity level. There have been times where either the table does not keep the AP arrow, or they do not change the arrow properly. Because I need to check that the table is doing things correctly, I need to remember the AP sequence myself. Jump balls would give officials as well as the table 1 less headache to worry about. Coaches then won't be able to claim that "the refs gave the wrong team the ball" when they aren't paying attention.

In NBA mechanics, the official with the best toss administers all jump balls, so there should be no issues with bad tosses affecting the jump ball result. NFHS and NCAA rules can adopt something similar if jump balls outside the center circle get reintroduced. On the off-chance that the ball is tossed badly, the tableside non-tossing official can call the toss back, and the toss will be repeated.