Double foul: Who gets the ball?

[billyu2]

I brought up this question many, many years ago on another forum and still have doubts on what the correct answer is:

A1's 3 pt. try is in flight when a double foul is called near the basket. The ball bounces off the rim and while still within the cylinder hits the support wire above the rim. What is the ruling?

[SC Official]

Team B.

A double foul while the ball is in flight does not cause the ball to become dead immediately. The ball does not become dead until the try ends, which is when it hits the wire and is an OOB violation on Team A.

There are officials out there who believe every double foul during a try results in an AP throw-in (hell, there are some who believe all double fouls go to the arrow). That's simply not true.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by billyu2

I brought up this question many, many years ago on another forum and still have doubts on what the correct answer is:
A1's 3 pt. try is in flight when a double foul is called near the basket. The ball bounces off the rim and while still within the cylinder hits the support wire above the rim. What is the ruling?

7-5-3 seems to offer a conclusive answer:
"Designated OOB spot throw-in nearest to where the ball became dead...".
The ball became dead directly above the basket. Therefore, it would be on the endline just outside either lane line extended.
"Which side of the basket?" We've discussed that before. Here's the thread, in case anyone wants to review all 8 pages of responses: https://forum.officiating.com/basket...lane-line.html
Might be nice to hear a fresh debate on the topic.

[crosscountry55]

I like SC’s interp, though I admit it’s just that. We normally go to the arrow in the case of a try because no team was in control when the foul occurred and you can’t assume which team would have rebounded an unsuccessful try. But the ball going OOB before the success of the try could be determined seems to trump this, thus making the POI a throw-in for Team B. Same would apply if the try bounced off the rim and over a rectangular backboard.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

There are officials out there who believe every double foul during a try results in an AP throw-in (hell, there are some who believe all double fouls go to the arrow).

Neither is true.

All double fouls go to a jump ball between the two foulers at the closest of the three jump ball circles to the spot of the double foul.

Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Team B.

A double foul while the ball is in flight does not cause the ball to become dead immediately. The ball does not become dead until the try ends, which is when it hits the wire and is an OOB violation on Team A.

There are officials out there who believe every double foul during a try results in an AP throw-in (hell, there are some who believe all double fouls go to the arrow). That's simply not true.

This was my position then and still is now. However, the conventional wisdom then, and still could be now, was K.I.S.S. The try was unsuccessful-AP throw in. That's why I thought to bring this up again. Just curious to see how others today interpret this.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I like SC’s interp, though I admit it’s just that. We normally go to the arrow in the case of a try because no team was in control when the foul occurred and you can’t assume which team would have rebounded an unsuccessful try. But the ball going OOB before the success of the try could be determined seems to trump this, thus making the POI a throw-in for Team B. Same would apply if the try bounced off the rim and over a rectangular backboard.

Perhaps. What if the ball bounced well outside the cylinder before passing over the backboard? The try ends when it is certain the try is unsuccessful.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

"Which side of the basket?" We've discussed that before. Might be nice to hear a fresh debate on the topic.

Shut up.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I like SC’s interp, though I admit it’s just that. We normally go to the arrow in the case of a try because no team was in control when the foul occurred and you can’t assume which team would have rebounded an unsuccessful try. But the ball going OOB before the success of the try could be determined seems to trump this, thus making the POI a throw-in for Team B. Same would apply if the try bounced off the rim and over a rectangular backboard.

SC's interp is more than that, it is the rule.

On the double foul, you go to the POI, whatever that is. Fouls that occur with a try in flight are effectively treated as if they occurred at the moment the try ends. This try ended with a violation that would give the ball to B. That is the POI...give the ball to B.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Perhaps. What if the ball bounced well outside the cylinder before passing over the backboard? The try ends when it is certain the try is unsuccessful.

Probably not physically possible. If it is going so far to the front or the side, it is probably not going over the backboard.

But, if it did, that would end the try.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

There are officials out there who believe every double foul during a try results in an AP throw-in (hell, there are some who believe all double fouls go to the arrow). That's simply not true.

I have to dispell that myth all the time in trainings or camps or meetings. People immediately think POI is the AP arrow on just about every double foul.

Peace

[SNIPERBBB]

Its been what, 14 years since double fouls went to POI from AP?

[ilyazhito]

B gets possession, since the POI was an out-of-bounds violation. Both players get charged with fouls, play continues with a throw-in from a designated spot outside the lane line extended.

[MattReferee]

B gets possession