The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 03:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 277
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.
Bingo. Also, NBA officials go tableside on shooting fouls.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 04:58pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.
They are hung up on terminology that even if you use a term that is not "perfect" they will ask you, "What is a secondary defender?" I swear the FB pages are the most annoying example of this kind of thinking.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 05:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
They are hung up on terminology that even if you use a term that is not "perfect" they will ask you, "What is a secondary defender?" I swear the FB pages are the most annoying example of this kind of thinking.

Peace
And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 05:25pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.
Well, you cannot tell it to some people, because last season there were people asking what that was and saying it was not in the manual.

Maybe a better description would be when we talk about a player "gathering the ball." You get people here, "Where is that in the rulebook?" I am just glad I do not work with many of those people.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 05:51pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,773
Best Of The Best ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.
Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 07:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.
For those of us in IAABO boards, this term was also added to the IAABO manual this year.

SCOfficial, to your point, I strive to be a good playcaller and game manager as well as someone well-versed in the rules and mechanics.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 09:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.
I never said they were mutually exclusive.

My point was that all these “purists” get so hung up on being technical that they don’t even bother trying to improve in the things that actually matter.

Also, following the Manual to a T doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with good mechanics. The Manual still says we’re supposed to give a prelim on every foul. Who the hell teaches or actually does this in real life? And some of the most by-the-book officials I know have the worst-looking mechanics. You can tell they’ve never seen themselves on film or practiced in a mirror.

I would take a partner any day who is sharp, crisp, and can manage a game but may occasionally use an “unapproved” yet more descriptive signal to the table (which is another issue with the NFHS altogether) over a pedantic, overly technical partner who doesn’t have much to offer other than book knowledge and telling people when they do something that isn’t 100% by the book.

Last edited by SC Official; Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 10:09pm.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 10:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
SCOfficial, to your point, I strive to be a good playcaller and game manager as well as someone well-versed in the rules and mechanics.
Being well-versed is different than being pedantic. Officials who only care about what the book says and don’t talk about the more important things are rarely officials I am impressed by or want to work with.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 10:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well, you cannot tell it to some people, because last season there were people asking what that was and saying it was not in the manual.

Maybe a better description would be when we talk about a player "gathering the ball." You get people here, "Where is that in the rulebook?" I am just glad I do not work with many of those people.

Peace
Some officials need every single thing spelled out for them.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 07, 2019, 10:39pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Also, following the Manual to a T doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with good mechanics. The Manual still says we’re supposed to give a prelim on every foul. Who the hell teaches or actually does this in real life? And some of the most by-the-book officials I know have the worst-looking mechanics. You can tell they’ve never seen themselves on film or practiced in a mirror.
Funny you say that. It is what we are supposed to do at by those that run the state, but I rarely see officials do it to a tee. I also agree, that those might have decent signals, but cannot rotate properly or call in their area or give good secondary help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I would take a partner any day who is sharp, crisp, and can manage a game but may occasionally use an “unapproved” yet more descriptive signal to the table (which is another issue with the NFHS altogether) over a pedantic, overly technical partner who doesn’t have much to offer other than book knowledge and telling people when they do something that isn’t 100% by the book.
This explains most college officials I know. Sorry to those but I love working with guys with solid college experience because of that very fact. They might not be perfect, but they understand the game.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 08:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Funny you say that. It is what we are supposed to do at by those that run the state, but I rarely see officials do it to a tee. I also agree, that those might have decent signals, but cannot rotate properly or call in their area or give good secondary help.



This explains most college officials I know. Sorry to those but I love working with guys with solid college experience because of that very fact. They might not be perfect, but they understand the game.
The only thing that bothers me is when I'm in a high school pregame with a college official (and I am one of those) and he wants to talk about college stuff, be it rules or just bragging about himself. All that does is confuse non-college officials and makes it feel like you are big-timing. Thankfully this does not happen too much.

Once we get out on the floor, I don't really care if you use a signal that isn't in the back of the book. I care if you get plays right, are a good partner, apply the correct rules and switches, communicate well, handle business, and manage the game.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 08:28am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,368
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.
Thanks for the compliment.

I pride myself on doing it all, adding in rule book knowledge as well. Rules and mechanics competency are completely under the control of each individual referee.

I started off being a good play-caller and have gotten better by listening to those who have been successful in this profession. Game manager has a few aspects to it (controlling players/dead ball officiating/common sense decision making/fruitful communication with coaches). I'm still working on improving my communications styles w/coaches. I'm still learning in regards to that aspect.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 10:10am.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 09:14am
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Some officials need every single thing spelled out for them.
Many times these are same officials who don’t take responsibility for their calls and performance,.. They blame their instructors and others by saying you said and yea but!
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 10:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Many times these are same officials who don’t take responsibility for their calls and performance,.. They blame their instructors and others by saying you said and yea but!
I've unfortunately worked with many a high school official who doesn't care about anything other than what the books say.

On the flip side, I can't stand officials with a too-good "I'm not a rules guy" mentality, no matter what level they work. A lot of college officials have piss-poor rules knowledge but get away with it by looking pretty and getting their partners to bail them out.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 03:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,773
Read Them The Riot Act ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The only thing that bothers me is when I'm in a high school pregame with a college official and he wants to talk about college stuff ... just bragging about himself ... are big-timing ...
Saw this a lot a generation ago, don't see it very often with the younger guys, somebody most have straightened them out.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adjusting from 2-person to 3-person mechanics (2PO to 3PO) ilyazhito Basketball 47 Fri Aug 03, 2018 01:12pm
H.S. 3 person Mechanics Clark Kent Basketball 24 Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:24pm
3-Person Mechanics RookieDude Basketball 11 Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:32pm
Two person mechanics FUBLUE Softball 7 Thu Apr 01, 2004 07:53am
3 person mechanics Ralph Stubenthal Basketball 22 Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:03am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1