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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 24, 2003, 01:12pm
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In 2 person mechanics, when there is a foul and shots are to be taken at the other end of the court, the Lead official takes the ball to the other end and becomes Lead down there and administers the free throws. This is considered to be the switch after a shooting foul because he went from Lead to new Trail after the foul and then when he reaches the other end he becomes the new Lead. How does it work in 3 person mechanics? In high school 3 person mechanics I am told that you don't switch on a foul which causes the ball to go the other direction ie. a foul by the offense in the front court. So in a situation where there is a foul committed on one end and foul shots will be taken on the other end of the court, I assume there will be no switch after the foul is reported but then, what are the positions that the 3 officials take up on the other end to set up for the free throws? I am assuming that the 3 officials just move down the court the same way that they would if the ball had changed hands and went the other way. Please advise, thanks, Ralph.
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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 01:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
How does it work in 3 person mechanics? In high school 3 person mechanics I am told that you don't switch on a foul which causes the ball to go the other direction ie. a foul by the offense in the front court.
That's not always true. The purpose is to avoid the long switch, from old L at one end to new lead at the other. We've never used it if the foul was tableside, which would just require the L to become the new C, not the new L.

Quote:
So in a situation where there is a foul committed on one end and foul shots will be taken on the other end of the court, I assume there will be no switch after the foul is reported but then, what are the positions that the 3 officials take up on the other end to set up for the free throws? I am assuming that the 3 officials just move down the court the same way that they would if the ball had changed hands and went the other way.
No, your assumption is incorrect. When an official calls a foul that requires FTs, he ALWAYS moves to C. Subsequent action may cause him to have to switch again, but intially, he always goes to C. He does not stay where he was.
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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 01:28pm
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BktBallRef, When you said that the official who calls the foul that results in free throws always goes to C, did you mean that he always goes opposite to either C or T? Then, after the switch, what is the progression to the other end for the shots? Thanks for your reply, Ralph.
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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 03:10pm
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Only one switch is made. You don't go to one position and then go to another. You assume your one position after the foul is reported.

During a FT, positions are always the same. Just like the Lead is always tableside and the Trail opposite in 2 man, 3 man has mandatory positions. The Lead and Trail are always tableside and the Center is always opposite. The C is always the official who called the foul.

[Edited by BktBallRef on May 24th, 2003 at 11:50 PM]
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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 04:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
In high school 3 person mechanics I am told that you don't switch on a foul which causes the ball to go the other direction ie. a foul by the offense in the front court.
I think FED has removed this mechanic for next year. ;(

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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
In high school 3 person mechanics I am told that you don't switch on a foul which causes the ball to go the other direction ie. a foul by the offense in the front court.
I think FED has removed this mechanic for next year. ;(
Yes, that's correct. I meant to add that in my first reply.

The only reason it was added 2 years ago was because the NCAA had added it. There was even an NCAA rep. present at the rules committee meeting, who stated that it was a good change and the NCAA would cointinue with it. A month later, the NCAA kicks it out.
Mr. Knox was the Rules Chariman at the time and told us the story at our state clinic two years ago. He actually told us they would take it out the very next year but I guess they waited, since a new Mechanics Manual is printed this year.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 24, 2003, 08:46pm
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Okay, let me see if I've got this. When there is a foul that will require shots on the opposite end of the court, whoever calls the foul becomes C opposite the table. Then, whoever is in Lead will become Trail on the end where the shots will occur and the old Trail will become Lead on the end where the shots will occur.
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Old Sat May 24, 2003, 11:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
Okay, let me see if I've got this. When there is a foul that will require shots on the opposite end of the court, whoever calls the foul becomes C opposite the table. Then, whoever is in Lead will become Trail on the end where the shots will occur and the old Trail will become Lead on the end where the shots will occur.
You got it!
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Old Sun May 25, 2003, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
whoever calls the foul becomes C opposite the table. Then, whoever is in Lead will become Trail on the end where the shots will occur and the old Trail will become Lead on the end where the shots will occur.
You got it!
Maybe I'm missing Tony's point, but I don't think Ralph's description is right. Yes, whoever calls the foul goes opposite to the C position. But the Old Trail does not necessarily become the new Lead. What if it's the Old Trail that called the foul? Then s/he becomes the C, not the new Lead.

Whoever calls the foul becomes the C opposite, which almost always forces one or both of the other officials to adjust to table-side.

This is, I'm pretty sure, how we'd switch in this situation in the NCAA men's game (I don't do any 3-whistle for HS):

1) If the calling official is Lead, opposite the table, then s/he "slides" to the new C position and the Old Trail "slides" downcourt and over to become the new Lead tableside. The old C becomes the new Trail for the FTs.

2) If the calling official is Lead, tableside, then s/he switches with the C official and the old C becomes the new T as they move to the frontcourt for the FTs.

3) If the calling official is C, opposite, then all 3 officials stay in their positions and "slide" into the frontcourt.

4) If the calling official is C, tableside, then basically everybody just moves to the opposite side of the floor from where they started.

5) If the calling official is T, opposite, then s/he becomes new C. Old C becomes new Lead, Old Lead becomes new Trail.

6) If the calling official is T, tableside, then s/he becomes new C and old C becomes new Lead for the FTs. Old Lead "slides" upcourt to become new Trail.

Is this how it works for FED?

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on May 27th, 2003 at 11:37 AM]
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Old Sun May 25, 2003, 11:57am
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Talking Chuch's nitting again!

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Maybe I'm missing Tony's point, but I don't think Ralph's description is right. Yes, whoever calls the foul goes opposite to the C position. But the Old Trail does not necessarily become the new Lead. What if it's the Old Trail that called the foul? Then s/he becomes the C, not the new Lead.
Didn't mean to confuse things. I was actually only addressing the original situation that Ralph asked about. That is where the L would call the foul and we go to the other end to shhot. But in these long posts, things seem to always get twisted. The important thing is that whoever calls the foul ALWAYS goes to C when shooting FTs. Ralph seemed to be struggling with that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
In high school 3 person mechanics I am told that you don't switch on a foul which causes the ball to go the other direction ie. a foul by the offense in the front court. So in a situation where there is a foul committed on one end and foul shots will be taken on the other end of the court, I assume there will be no switch after the foul is reported but then, what are the positions that the 3 officials take up on the other end to set up for the free throws?


2 rules that will keep you out of trouble in 3 man.

1- Whoever calls the foul ALWAYS goes to C when shooting FTs.

2- If you're tableside and you don't call the foul, you NEVER switch. You may have to transistion or rotate from one position to another but you NEVER switch.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 27, 2003, 10:28am
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Yeah, I got it. Whoever calls the foul goes to C opposite. Then, whoever is then the Trail after the switch becomes Lead on other end and whoever is then Lead after the switch becomes Trail on other end. It is easy to show on paper but hard to verbalize without leaving something out. Thanks, not to, but from, Ralph.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 28, 2003, 05:27am
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NFHS mechanic

Guys this is all covered in diagrams 62, 64, 66, and 68 on pages 74-77 of the officials manual.
A quick summary:
diagram 62: L (opp table) calls foul. L to C, C to L, T stays T.
diagram 64: C (opp table) calls foul. C stays C, L to T, T to L.
diagram 66: T (opp table) calls foul. T to C, C to L, L to T.
diagram 68: T (table side) calls foul. T to C, L to T, and C to L.
Now the two cases that are not in the manual:
#1. C (table side) calls foul. C stays C, T to L, L to T.
#2. L (table side) calls foul. L to C, T to L, C to T.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 06:52am
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Re: NFHS mechanic

Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref

Now the two cases that are not in the manual:
#1. C (table side) calls foul. C stays C, T to L, L to T.
#2. L (table side) calls foul. L to C, T to L, C to T.
Hmmmm.
...possibly.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 07:19am
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Re: NFHS mechanic

Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
diagram 62: L (opp table) calls foul. L to C, C to L, T stays T.
diagram 64: C (opp table) calls foul. C stays C, L to T, T to L.
diagram 66: T (opp table) calls foul. T to C, C to L, L to T.
diagram 68: T (table side) calls foul. T to C, L to T, and C to L.
Now the two cases that are not in the manual:
#1. C (table side) calls foul. C stays C, T to L, L to T.
#2. L (table side) calls foul. L to C, T to L, C to T.
Wow! I guess I was right!!

Why the reservation, mick?
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 07:32am
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Re: Re: NFHS mechanic

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
diagram 62: L (opp table) calls foul. L to C, C to L, T stays T.
diagram 64: C (opp table) calls foul. C stays C, L to T, T to L.
diagram 66: T (opp table) calls foul. T to C, C to L, L to T.
diagram 68: T (table side) calls foul. T to C, L to T, and C to L.
Now the two cases that are not in the manual:
#1. C (table side) calls foul. C stays C, T to L, L to T.
#2. L (table side) calls foul. L to C, T to L, C to T.
Wow! I guess I was right!!

Why the reservation, mick?
Chuck,
I haven't read this entire thread. I wonder about the direction of the ball.
mick
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