Flagrant Foul Example

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by constable

... give the proper DQ signal when reporting.

Curious? What is the "proper disqualifying signal"?

[constable]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Curious? What is the "proper disqualifying signal"?

I wish...

https://www.basketball.ca/files/2018...pt2018_low.pdf signal #52

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Curious? What is the "proper disqualifying signal"?

We have a swimming official i work with that used to tell swimmers that a DQ means their parents have to buy them Dairy Queen on the way home from the meet. He used to tell that to his kids when he had to DQ them in age group swimming. Other parents didn't like hearing it so he was asked to stop.

[ballgame99]

Legit question because I've never dealt with this situation; is there any difference between an intentional and a flagrant in NFHS other than the ejection of the offending player? Does the player being fouled have to shoot the shots? Or does the ruling of a flagrant foul change this?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Legit question because I've never dealt with this situation; is there any difference between an intentional and a flagrant in NFHS other than the ejection of the offending player? Does the player being fouled have to shoot the shots? Or does the ruling of a flagrant foul change this?

No change in the administration. Same shooter, same shots, same throwin spot.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Legit question because I've never dealt with this situation; is there any difference between an intentional and a flagrant in NFHS other than the ejection of the offending player? Does the player being fouled have to shoot the shots? Or does the ruling of a flagrant foul change this?

Just to not get them confused, fighting is considered a "Flagrant Act," not a flagrant foul, and so while the ejection is the same, anyone can shoot the free-throws, ball out at division line to the offended team.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Just to not get them confused, fighting is considered a "Flagrant Act," not a flagrant foul, and so while the ejection is the same, anyone can shoot the free-throws, ball out at division line to the offended team.

So the status of the ball, live or dead, makes no difference?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Just to not get them confused, fighting is considered a "Flagrant Act," not a flagrant foul, and so while the ejection is the same, anyone can shoot the free-throws, ball out at division line to the offended team.

What are you talking about? A1 punching B1 during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul and B1 (or his substitute, if B1 is injured) must attempt the FTs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

So the status of the ball, live or dead, makes no difference?

NFHS Case Book has fighting during a live ball as a flagrant personal foul and fighting during a dead ball as a flagrant technical foul.

Live ball examples:

10.5.5 SITUATION A:

Post-players A1 and B1 begin punching each other and play is stopped. Two substitutes from each team leave the bench area and come onto the court. The four substitutes: (a) do not become involved in the fight; (b) all become involved in the fight; (c) substitutes A6, A7 and B6 do not participate in the fight, but B7 becomes involved in the fight; (d) head coach enters the court to assist in curtailing the fighting.

RULING: A1 and B1 are charged with flagrant fouls and are disqualified, but no free throws result from the double personal flagrant fouls. The four substitutes are charged with flagrant technical fouls and are disqualified. No free throws are awarded for the simultaneous technical fouls as the number of bench personnel leaving the bench and the penalties are the same for both teams. In (a), one technical foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach of each team. In (b), each head coach is charged indirectly with two technical fouls (one for each bench player leaving the bench and becoming involved in the fight). In (c), the Team A head coach is charged indirectly with one technical foul and the Team B head coach is indirectly charged with two technical fouls (one for substitutes B6 and B7 leaving the bench, and one for B7 becoming involved in the fight). In situations (a), (b) and (c), the ball is put in play at the point of interruption. Legal in (d).

COMMENT: The head coach may enter the court in the situation where a fight may break out or has broken out to prevent the situation from escalating. (4-36, 7-5-3b, 10-5-5 NOTE)

8.6.3 SITUATION A:

A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8, 4-36, 6-4-3f, 7-5-3b, 10-4-8)

Dead ball example:

10.5.5 SITUATION D:

While the ball is live, players A1 and B1 commit fouls against each other at approximately the same time. A1 then punches B1. B6 and B7 leave the confines of the bench but do not participate in the fight.

RULING: The common fouls by A1 and B1 constitute a double personal foul so no free throws are awarded. A1’s punch constitutes fighting and results in a flagrant technical foul and disqualification, and two free throws are awarded. B6 and B7 are assessed technical fouls and disqualified for entering the court illegally during a fight. Although B6 and B7 are both assessed technical fouls, only one is penalized with two free throws. The coach is penalized one indirect technical foul for B6 and B7 leaving the bench. (4-19-8, 10-4-7, 10-7 PENALTIES (Rule 10 Summary) 8a, 10-7 PENALTIES 8b) Administration of Penalties: The double personal fouls offset and no free throws are awarded. With the marked lane spaces clear, any member of Team B (other than B6 and B7) attempts two free throws for the flagrant technical foul (fighting) by A1. These attempts are followed by any member of Team A (other than A1) attempting two free throws (with the marked lane spaces clear) for the technical foul charged to B6 and B7 for leaving the bench during a fight, but not participating. Following the free throw attempts by Team A, play is resumed with a throw-in by Team A at the division line opposite the scorer’s table.

[deecee]

Nevada, I knew that. I was trying to make the point you made next by being a bit more indirect .

[frezer11]

You guys are right, sorry, not sure what I was thinking on that. I suppose most of the fights I ever discuss here or elsewhere happen during a dead ball, but certainly I stand corrected that live ball action is a flagrant foul and treated as such.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

1) This video was posted on Friday, March 22, 2019, which was the second day of the OhioHSAA Boys' State Finals. And since this game was played at Elyria (Ohio) Elyria Central Catholic H.S. it was obviously a regular season game played earlier in the season.

2) Since I do not know who the opponent is I cannot determine when the game was played.

3) I do not know what league/conference Elyria C.C.H.S. plays in either.

4) I have some friends in the Cleveland area who might be able to provide more information regarding this incident. But from the video it appears that the game officials were on top of the play and took care of business.

MTD, Sr.