The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 12:46pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,696
Lights, Camera, Action ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner View Post
For example, if you were aware of the placement before the game, how would you pregame it?
Only one of our regular season sites has lights, and we always pregame that light "trumps" horn. We would do the same for a state tournament site.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 19, 2019 at 01:25pm.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 12:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 97
Always feel like the light is irrelavant unless you can use video replay. During live game action we have to watch the players and listen for the horn to determine if the goal was good or not.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 12:50pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,696
For The Good Of The Cause ...

2.13 SITUATION: The signal to end the fourth quarter cannot be heard by the officials. The table officials disagree as to whether the ball was in flight during a try for field goal when time expired or if a foul occurred before the ball became dead. RULING: The final decision shall be made by the referee, and unless he/she has knowledge to alter the ruling, the goal shall count if it was successful and the foul shall be charged and penalized. (2-5-5)

5.6.2 SITUATION I: During the pregame warm-up, the officials observe that the facility has functioning LED lights on each backboard. A1 begins the act of shooting just prior to
the expiration of time in the first quarter. The covering official observes the attempt in A1s hands when the LED light is activated, but the ball appears to be out of the hands when the horn is sounded. The ball goes in the basket. RULING: No goal; the quarter expired prior to the release of the try. COMMENT: Red/LED lights provide a visual reference for officials to determine when a period has ended. The red/LED lights and the horn are expected to be synchronized, but since light travels faster than sound, it may appear that one follows the other. The red/LED lights give a more precise indication that a period has expired. (1-14; 6-7-6)

2-13-3: If table officials disagree, the goal shall count and/or the foul
shall be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such
ruling.

1-14 A red light behind each backboard or an LED light on each backboard is
permitted to signal that time has expired for a quarter or extra period. In
facilities without a red light behind or an LED light on each backboard, the
audible timers signal shall indicate that time has expired.

2-12-7: Indicate by signal the expiration of playing time in each quarter
or extra period. If a red/LED light is used, the light is the official
expiration of playing time.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 02:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
MN does have limited video review in state tournament games, but only for the games that are actually televised (about half the quarterfinal games, and all of the semi-finals and finals). Games in the consolation brackets do not have video review.

This situation would've qualified for video review, but this was NOT a state tournament game. This was a section final game, and the winner advanced to the state tournament.

MN Post season works like this: each class (A, AA, AAA, AAAA) is divided up into 8 sections, with each section having anywhere from 8 to 14 teams in it (the smaller classes usually have larger sections, mainly due to the advent of a bunch of tiny charter schools that have sprung up in the last handful of years). Each section has a single-elimination tournament, with the semifinals and finals being at neutral sites. The winners from each section advance to the state tournament.

The state tournament then consists of 4 classes of 8 teams apiece (the 8 section champions). The losers in the quarterfinal round go into the consolation bracket, and then compete for the "consolation championship" (ie: 5th place). The losers in the semifinals play in a 3rd place game.
FWIW ALL quarters are webcast. Consolation and 3rd place games are not
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 02:43pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,510
I will just say from my experience working my own tournament, I discussed in every game that if we had a last second shot and it was close, get together to make the call. We do not need to be in a hurry. If you have a call as the C or T, just make the call if it is obvious. If there is any doubt, we should get together before a decision is made. No double signals are wanted or needed. Make one ruling.

That is what I discussed with my crew when we worked the last 5 games of the tournament. There was hardly a game where we could hear the horn anyway, so this is what I suggested. The big guys get video replay in their games, we don't. So we might as well take our time if every other level can review the video.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael Mick Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 03:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I will just say from my experience working my own tournament, I discussed in every game that if we had a last second shot and it was close, get together to make the call. We do not need to be in a hurry. If you have a call as the C or T, just make the call if it is obvious. If there is any doubt, we should get together before a decision is made. No double signals are wanted or needed. Make one ruling.

That is what I discussed with my crew when we worked the last 5 games of the tournament. There was hardly a game where we could hear the horn anyway, so this is what I suggested. The big guys get video replay in their games, we don't. So we might as well take our time if every other level can review the video.

Peace
Yup, make your call if 100% sure. If not get together and confer.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 04:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
Do teams really enjoy playing in the third place, or consolation bracket? There was a reason the NCAA got rid of the third place games years ago. I am surprised there are actually teams that really want these games.

This is different than a regular season event where teams are guaranteed a certain number of games.
Some do, some don't. It is different than college in many ways. For the NCAA, it was money as much as anything. For HS, there is a distinct drop in attendance in the consolation brackets for some levels/teams. But, when a small school's teams have traveled 500 miles to get to a game, they're going to want to see them play no matter whether it is in the 3rd place game or the championship.

And the teams playing generally take it very seriously. I've had some mail it in in games I've worked, but more often than not, they're trying to eek out one more win to finish the season on a win.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 07:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I will just say from my experience working my own tournament, I discussed in every game that if we had a last second shot and it was close, get together to make the call. We do not need to be in a hurry. If you have a call as the C or T, just make the call if it is obvious. If there is any doubt, we should get together before a decision is made. No double signals are wanted or needed. Make one ruling.

That is what I discussed with my crew when we worked the last 5 games of the tournament. There was hardly a game where we could hear the horn anyway, so this is what I suggested. The big guys get video replay in their games, we don't. So we might as well take our time if every other level can review the video.

Peace
I had a wreck league game this season with an interesting end of quarter situation.

The gym we are in only has a scoreboard on one end, so even though I was the lead (2 man system), I am (per league directors mandate), supposed to also have the clock. This is a gym with about three feet of end line space, so not much room to move back.



The situation was as follows: Ball inbounded from near the corner with 1 second left to the corner. Player catches the pass attempts a shot prior to the buzzer with his foot just behind the 3 point line. I am trying to watch the foot, for contact of a defender stepping out on the shooter, and watch for the ball off the shooters hands before the horn.

I, after trying to watch all parts of this play, try going to my partner to make sure we agree on how everything played out. His response " That's your call, I have no idea."

Sometimes its hard to go to your partner when he isn't going to be helpful. You just have to pray you have partner(s) that are more helpful than he was.

After I ruled it a good basket, the defense then wanted to argue the 2 or 3. I was 100% sure this was a three. I couldn't be 100% it was out of his hand on time.

Oh, and being Rec League the idea of a pre-game is "your going to toss this game." My partner that night didn't show up until the 2nd quarter.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 19, 2019, 10:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post

The gym we are in only has a scoreboard on one end, so even though I was the lead (2 man system), I am (per league directors mandate), supposed to also have the clock. This is a gym with about three feet of end line space, so not much room to move back.
.
And your play situation is exactly why this is a bad idea. A lot of people promote it but trying to look at a clock on a wall nowhere near the play itself and a shooter at he same time is likely to make things worse than just looking at the shooter and listening for the horn as is supposed to be done. The odds that the clock will be behind the shooter relative to either officials is a low probability proposition. Then, you have to concentrate so much on the numbers, you're likely to miss a foul. Looking for something to light up is really only a good idea if that thing is on the backboard where it is far easier to see it light up (not focused on it saying a specific number) and the shot at the same time.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 20, 2019, 09:43am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,696
The Goal Shall Count ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
I couldn't be 100% it was out of his hand on time.
2.13 SITUATION: The signal to end the fourth quarter cannot be heard by the officials. The table officials disagree as to whether the ball was in flight during a try for field goal when time expired or if a foul occurred before the ball became dead. RULING: The final decision shall be made by the referee, and unless he/she has knowledge to alter the ruling, the goal shall count if it was successful and the foul shall be charged and penalized. (2-5-5)
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 20, 2019, 09:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
It's wreck league, in some cases being close enough is good enough. Nothing is on the line except fragile egos.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 20, 2019, 09:54am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,696
Near The End Of Periods ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
... trying to look at a clock on a wall nowhere near the play itself and a shooter at he same time is likely to make things worse than just looking at the shooter and listening for the horn as is supposed to be done.
Agree. Assuming no red lights, near the end of periods, as the lead, or as the trial, I'm noting the time on the clock at the beginning of play, making sure that the clock properly starts (if applicable), and then directing my attention to the players, looking for fouls, and violations, while counting down the seconds in my head, and listening for the horn. If a whistle sounds before the horn, I'm looking at the clock again to make sure it stops in a timely manner, and putting time back on the clock if I have direct knowledge via my mental countdown, or (hopefully) my observation of the clock.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 20, 2019, 11:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
It's wreck league, in some cases being close enough is good enough. Nothing is on the line except fragile egos.
You mean the two fans in the stands for the games are NBA scouts looking at these guys to be the next Kobe. (Normally they are wives/girlfriends who are guilt tripped into coming to the game to watch).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Controversial ending chapmaja Basketball 30 Fri Mar 22, 2019 09:09am
All 3 Minnesota targeting ejections (Oregon St @ Minnesota - Video) JRutledge Football 4 Fri Sep 09, 2016 02:59pm
Ending of Ohio/Minnesota bwburke94 Football 7 Tue Sep 29, 2015 02:11pm
Strange(False)Ending in MInnesota 3A semi-final paulsonj72 Baseball 51 Thu Jun 21, 2012 07:12am
Controversial Ending in Florida Playoff Game TXMike Football 28 Fri Dec 12, 2008 03:25pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1