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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 16, 2019, 11:22pm
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May I ask why it was thrown UNDER the basket ? Shouldn’t it have been spotted outside the backboard “lane,paint ? Jus curious
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 16, 2019, 11:53pm
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It was. I assumed a forum full of officials would understand "under the basket" means at the throw-in spot just outside the lane.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:27am
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Fair Or By The Book ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
If no one had legally touched the ball, the throwin has not ended. The POI would be another throwin for same team. Not the arrow in play you describe.
Seems like a fair resolution, but is it by the book?

Who has team control just prior to the inadvertent whistle?

Nobody.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.


4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official's inadvertent
whistle,
an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6,
a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and
4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot
nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team
is in control
and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is
involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19-
8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when
the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.


Since neither team has team control at the time of the inadvertent whistle, I suggest that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound fair, but I believe it's by the book.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 09:43am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:37am
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Cite the POI rule.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:38am
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Play The Whistle ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.
Seems simple, but is it by the book?

What if nine players responded to the whistle by doing nothing and only one responded by grabbing the ball?

Sounds a little (but not exactly the same) like when incorrect instructions are given by the officials on a free throw and some players react in one manner and others react in another manner.

8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that two free throws will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed free throw is rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound. The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be ruled dead immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3; 2-10)

How often do coaches and officials tell kids to play the whistle?

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound like the simplest way to handle this, after all one player has possession of the ball, but I believe that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 09:48am.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Seems like a fair resolution, but is it by the book?

Who has team control just prior to the inadvertent whistle?

Nobody.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.


Since neither team has team control at the time of the inadvertent whistle, I suggest that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound fair, but I believe it's by the book.
Post the POI rule 4-36-2b. This rule actually says the poi is a throw in when the IW or whatever “occurred during this activity.” This is why the ball goes back to the other team in this play. The throw in had not ended. 4.19.8f also.

Last edited by BigCat; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 09:43am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:59am
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Interpretations ...

Throwin, but no inadvertent whistle:

4.19.8 SITUATION F: A1 releases the ball on a throw-in, and before it is legally touched, A2 and B2 commit fouls against each other. RULING: When a double foul occurs, play is resumed at the point of interruption. Since Team A’s throw-in had not ended, the point of interruption would be a throw-in by Team A. (4-36-2b; 10 Penalty 1c)

Inadvertent whistle, player control, team control, no team control:

7.5.3 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle inadvertently: (a) while A1 is dribbling and in player control; (b) while the pass is in flight from A1 (in A’s backcourt) to A2 (in A’s frontcourt); (c) while A1's unsuccessful three-point try attempt is in flight; or (d) while A’s successful try attempt is in flight. RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (a), Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where the ball was when the whistle was inadvertently sounded. In (b), since the ball is being passed among teammates and is in flight, it retains the same location as when it was last in contact with A1 in Team A’s backcourt. Therefore, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where A1 was when the whistle was sounded. In (c) and (d), the ball does not become dead until the try ends. In (c), since there is no team control when the ball becomes dead, the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure at a spot nearest to where A1 was last in contact with ball when the whistle was sounded. In (d), since a goal has been scored by Team A, the ball is given to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. (7-4-4; 4-4-3; 4-12-3,6; 4-36)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:59am
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Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Seems like a fair resolution, but is it by the book?

Who has team control just prior to the inadvertent whistle?

Nobody.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.


4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official's inadvertent
whistle,
an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6,
a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and
4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot
nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team
is in control
and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is
involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19-
8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when
the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.


Since neither team has team control at the time of the inadvertent whistle, I suggest that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound fair, but I believe it's by the book.
Quit confusing people who are here trying to learn. Not all of your internal arguments need to be spilled into a post...SMH

What is it about this portion of your citation that you do not understand?

Quote:
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 10:04am.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:09am
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This Activity ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Post the POI rule 4-36-2b. This rule actually says the poi is a throw in when the IW or whatever “occurred during this activity.” This is why the ball goes back to the other team in this play. The throw in had not ended. 4.19.8f also.
Nice post. I did spot this before I posted it but wasn't sure what "A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such" meant.

In this specific case, does it mean that play resumes by a throwin because the inadvertent whistle interruption occurred during a throwin that never ended because it wasn't touched by another player?

If that's the case, I stand corrected.

So for inadvertent whistle interruptions during a free throw, or a throwin, it's not about team control? Correct.

Thanks BigCat and Raymond.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 10:12am.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:17am
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Possession 9/10's Of The Law ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.
Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

Good job everybody. Gold stars all around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?
What was the status of the ball at the time of the IW? Start there for every question you have about this subject.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:43am
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Learn Something New Every Day ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
What was the status of the ball at the time of the IW?
A few minutes ago I would have thought it had everything to do with team control, or lack of team control. Now I know that that is not true regarding free throws, or throwins.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 11:04am.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?
I knew I shouldn't have put that in there. Bad move on my part and just added confusion. I did it because I was originally going to make this point and decided to be more pithy:

If the inadvertent whistle from the OP occurred
a) before any player touched the throw-in, the POI is a throw-in for Team A.
b) after a player touched the throw-in in bounds but before any player controlled the ball, the POI is the arrow
c) after a player controlled the ball, the POI is a throw-in for the team in control.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:25am
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Please Confirm ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
If the inadvertent whistle from the OP occurred
a) before any player touched the throw-in, the POI is a throw-in for Team A.
b) after a player touched the throw-in in bounds but before any player controlled the ball, the POI is the arrow
c) after a player controlled the ball, the POI is a throw-in for the team in control.
I'm thinking that they're all throwins for Team A, but I've already been wrong in this thread, so could someone please confirm?

4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official's inadvertent
whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6,
a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and
4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot
nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team
is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is
involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19-
8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when
the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm thinking that they're all throwins for Team A, but I've already been wrong in this thread, so could someone please confirm?

4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official's inadvertent
whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6,
a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and
4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot
nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team
is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is
involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19-
8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when
the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.
Billy, it is exactly as Altor laid it out in post 28. IW, double foul...Before throwin legally touched then back to A. After ball legally touched but not controlled by player then arrow.(HE didn’t tell us who arrow was favoring so I do t know if A gets it) If it Rebounds to players hands, then whistle....Throwin is over and a team is in control. Whatever team that is gets the ball. If you have other qs plz pm me. I’ll try to explain more but I don’t think this is helpful...
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