Throw in (after a basket) hits official...

[Rusty Gilbert]

Team A scores a field goal and immediately sets up to pressure the inbounds pass.

Team B has a play to get the ball in bounds. B1 recovers the ball after the field goal, steps OOB along the endline and on table side of lane extended. B1 immediately turns to pass the ball to B2 who has stepped OOB along the endline but near the corner opposite the table.

Here's the problem: B1's pass crosses the lane and is in flight toward B2 when it hits the official (old Lead--new Trail) who is visibly counting the throw-in. The ball bounces off the official, onto the court, where it is recovered by A1 who then lays it in for an easy basket.

Question?

1. Do you have a "redo"?
2. Or a violation on Team B?
3. Or count the basket and "play on"?
4. Or something else?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gilbert

Team A scores a field goal and immediately sets up to pressure the inbounds pass.

Team B has a play to get the ball in bounds. B1 recovers the ball after the field goal, steps OOB along the endline and on table side of lane extended. B1 immediately turns to pass the ball to B2 who has stepped OOB along the endline but near the corner opposite the table.

Here's the problem: B1's pass crosses the lane and is in flight toward B2 when it hits the official (old Lead--new Trail) who is visibly counting the throw-in. The ball bounces off the official, onto the court, where it is recovered by A1 who then lays it in for an easy basket.

Question?

1. Do you have a "redo"?
2. Or a violation on Team B?
3. Or count the basket and "play on"?
4. Or something else?

Where are the official's feet?

[Rusty Gilbert]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Where are the official's feet?

The official is "out of bounds" where he is supposed to be. He just happens to be in the line of flight for the pass from B1 to B2. The design is for B2 to catch the pass along the end line and then make the "throw-in" to another teammate (all of which is very legal after a made or awarded basket).

[MJT]

The ball became OOB's when it touched the official who is OOB's. Rule 7-1-2-b. It will be team A's ball for a throw in.

[Rusty Gilbert]

Originally Posted by MJT

The ball became OOB's when it touched the official who is OOB's. Rule 7-1-2-b. It will be team A's ball for a throw in.

Obviously the ball was ALREADY out of bounds before it touched the official, and it was being legally passed out of bounds between teammates after a basket....Rule 7-5-7

ART.7...After a goal or awarded goal as in 7-4-3, the team not credited with the score shall make the throw-in from the end of the court where the goal was made and from any point outside the end line. A team retains this privilege if the scoring team commits a violation or foul (before the bonus is in effect) and the ensuing throw-in spot would be on the endline. Any player of the team may take a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate(s) outside the boundary line.

[JRutledge]

With out knowledge of any specific interpretation, I would say it is a violation on the team throwing in and give the ball to team A. This is no different than throwing the ball onto the court but bouncing off the floor if the official is standing out of bounds. If the official is in bounds, you play on as if nothing happen.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MJT

The ball became OOB's when it touched the official who is OOB's. Rule 7-1-2-b. It will be team A's ball for a throw in.

Correct call and reasoning, but use rule 9-2-2 for justification of the violation. Treat it the same as trying to pass the ball along the endline but bouncing it in-bounds instead.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Wasn't it somewhat-recently decided in another thread that in a 7-5-7 situation, a teammate could theoretically roll the ball (let alone bounce-pass) to another teammate out of bounds along the end line, prior to making the throw-in pass? (The logic being that it is perfectly legal to touch the ball to the ground out of bounds - or bounce/dribble it - prior to making any throw-in, let alone a 7-5-7 throw-in.)

Or is this a violation because, as Jurassic is citing, it's treated the same as bouncing the ball on an actual throw-in pass that first touches out of bounds on it's way to going in bounds?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Wasn't it somewhat-recently decided in another thread that in a 7-5-7 situation, a teammate could theoretically roll the ball (let alone bounce-pass) to another teammate out of bounds along the end line, prior to making the throw-in pass? (The logic being that it is perfectly legal to touch the ball to the ground out of bounds - or bounce/dribble it - prior to making any throw-in, let alone a 7-5-7 throw-in.)

Or is this a violation because, as Jurassic is citing, it's treated the same as bouncing the ball on an actual throw-in pass that first touches out of bounds on it's way to going in bounds?

If the pass is between two teammates who are both standing OOB, it's legal just like it's legal to bounce pass between them. If the pass is the inbounds pass, it's illegal if it bounces OOB first.
Basically, if the ball touches the floor, it must then be caught by a player with the same status as the spot of the floor touched by the ball; and it must not touch the floor in both IB and OOB before touching another player.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Correct call and reasoning, but use rule 9-2-2 for justification of the violation. Treat it the same as trying to pass the ball along the endline but bouncing it in-bounds instead.

JR, I don't follow your reasoning here if the ref has both feet oob. Why would it be illegal for the ball to touch the ref? Then when the ball goes inbounds...

I see, so it's illegal for the ball to go inbounds after it bounces oob?

In situ (I heard that on the radio the other day, cool, eh?), I'd have let it go and A would get their basket.

But I see your point.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

JR, I don't follow your reasoning here if the ref has both feet oob. Why would it be illegal for the ball to touch the ref? Then when the ball goes inbounds...

I see, so it's illegal for the ball to go inbounds after it bounces oob?

Right. The ball touching the official is the same as the ball touching the floor (rule 2- Ball Location). So, we have a passed ball, touching out of bounds, then going inbounds. That's a ball that's not passd directly into the court. Violation.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Right. The ball touching the official is the same as the ball touching the floor (rule 2- Ball Location). So, we have a passed ball, touching out of bounds, then going inbounds. That's a ball that's not passd directly into the court. Violation.

So, would it be considered OOB's as I stated, or a violation? Does it really matter, as A will get the ball either way?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MJT

So, would it be considered OOB's as I stated, or a violation? Does it really matter, as A will get the ball either way?

Technically, it's a throwin violation. It's the same call you'd make if the thrower bounced threw a bounce pass that bounced OOB before being caught in bounds by a teammate.

[Adam]

Had a dual violation last night. A1 getting trapped right by his bench in the 2nd half. He's used his dribble and is trying to get an angle to pass over B1 and B2. He lifts his pivot foot and I can tell it's coming down. Sure enough, he puts it down ... out of bounds. Can't remember what I called, but I gave the ball to B.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Correct call and reasoning, but use rule 9-2-2 for justification of the violation. Treat it the same as trying to pass the ball along the endline but bouncing it in-bounds instead.

YU.P.
Violation.
If I think about it happening to me, I will not reward the throw-in team for hitting me with the ball with such a terrible pass. When it bounces inbounds we're going the other way.